Clan systems and clan bases

There are 18 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by |TSH| ***Tribbs***.

  • With the upcoming changes to the CF server we should discuss the future of clan systems and clan bases.

    Foundation for that so far was that clans were renting systems monthly... which worked for a few years until it didn't anymore.


    The question is how we deal with that in future.

    Should clans still get a clan base when renting a system?

    Should renting systems even be a thing?

    Would reduced costs probably motivate more people to invest in clan systems and building bases?

    Would that be a beneficial factor bringing people to the server and giving them a reason to stay?

    How to deal with clans which can not or do not want to pay for a system?

    Should access to clan bases and systems be based on something totally different method?

    How to deal with existing systems/bases?



    Your ideas and opinions?

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  • I think that Systems that have been Rented by a Clan, but the Clan has Not Paid rent (time to be Determined)

    should Default their Ownership of the System.


    Now if There is a Base or Bases in Said System the Clan or Whomsoever wishes to Rent it then the

    State of Construction of the Base's should be Taken into Consideration in the Cost of Rental for that System .


    If you Don't Pay

    We Take it Away !!

    It Goes Up for RENT on the Open Market

    SPECIAL OFFER !!!

    1 System + 1 Fully Constructed Base !!!


    Can be Yours for Only

    (Who Knows?)

    Harsh I Know but That's Life !!


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    Edited 2 times, last by |TSH| ***Tribbs*** ().

  • I'd say if a clan fails to pay rent, open the system, remove the signs and clan rules message at the entrances, and set the system as available for rent.

    lock the clan base but leave it otherwise intact, so the next tenant can decide what to do with the base, keep it, or delete it and build a new one in another location. I'm not sure if an existing clan base should affect rent prices.


    Also, maybe this is off topic or was discussed before, but have you thought about adding optional microtransactions? Every big game does it nowadays.

    I don't particularly like loot boxes with random loot, that would be gambling, but how about selling certain in-game items, like alien guns, custom lights for ships, cloaking devices, or battleship upgrades? The server can already add MK2 guns to cargo for completing the daily Tour.

    Should be completely optional of course, so no clan equipment.

  • I know <C> hasn't been around for enough time for it's voice to matter much. I am also aware of the events that led to <C> becoming progressively inactive. But here I am, back and trying to build it up again.


    Re-listing a clan system and it's base for people to grab is unfair for the original owner(s). All the effort initially invested in building the base would basically be available for somebody else to benefit, even if it's short term. Inactivity can happen to any clan, as we are all well aware, especially when RL happens on key members of the clan (eg: in <C>'s case, 2 founders had their kids born, births that happened 5 months apart) .


    Renting systems for clans and clan bases provide a unique purpose in playing this game - to my knowledge, no other mod offers this. And even if it did, the balance in this mod's ships and gear as well as the CF's dynamic economy are unmatched.


    In my opinion, bringing new players aboard is simply a matter of publicity/visibility: streams, funny youtube vids, adverts on other sites, etc... , because this mod's got what it needs to be in the top. Getting stuff away from the players was in no case a good thing (except you're EA) .


    So, my proposal is:

    • Keep the model with clans owning systems and bases.
    • If a clan fails to pay the rent, then:
      • Message the leader and/or other key clan members 1 week before expiration
      • Provide a time buffer of 1 month after expiration date, for the clan leader(s) to pay the rent.
      • If within the 1 month time period there is no payment received from clan leader(s) or a honest and justified intention to pay but after the buffer , then:
        • Delete billboards, welcoming messages and list the system for rent.
        • Delete the base from the system but keep it "stashed" on the server, so that when the clan returns, they could rent another system and use the base in the new system -- not sure if this is possible form a technical POV, but in my opinion it would be the most fair thing to do.


    As for the micro transactions - I agree that this might be a good thing, as long as it offers aesthetic perks and/or non-clan items. For example:

    • purchase a color set for ship's lights from a pre-defined list of color sets.
    • purchase an engine trail color fro ma pre-defined list of options.
    • purchase a honk - the honk sound would be selectable from a predefined list of sounds.
      • an invisible hard point can be used for this, I believe, and the honk would be mounted on it - but it would require all ships to be remodelld with it.
    • purchase all available non-clan items.
    • purchase all available non-clan ships.


    I have more ideas, but I will eventually open a new thread for it, as this is in regards to clan systems and bases.

  • how about this i don't want to be in a clan but i would like to build a small base so how about a new system like new york a safe zone where people can do that for a small fee


    that would keep me here for sure and would give a player more content has well i have got to the stage where i don't have much to do

  • Someone has to pay the bills, and the idea was to cross-finance that with clan system rent. The other part would be that we for example sell clan base stuff to single users (with reduced options to build up or whatever). So if you want to "buy" this you support the server and could use online clan base stuff features (with reduced content)...

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  • Just my personal view: clan's rent (amount to be decided) should cover maintenance of the clan base (rented system). With rent not paid for two? months there will be removed some modules and station is destructed after some time (next 4? 6? months). Following month can be clan presence cleared from system and someone else can enter. It can be seen as hard, or unfair, but because I myself was paying full rent or later its part, and that for quite long time, I think that absolutely fair are the same conditions for everyone. No one need to know who pays money for a clan rent, but should be public that clan have covered its part of renting system bargain.


    The problem which I see here is, that this process should be automatic, including chosen way how to warn clan members (clan leader). Maybe can be also publicly announced that there happened "destruction" of some clan base modules ... with possibility that someone may decide to save this particular clan and be active.


    For rent amount ... for me personally was 20 € / month too much and in clan which I helped build was rent covered by more clan members, this in time when I was active on server. Thing is, that with lower rent there may be much higher interest to try go for clan base and maintain them.


    And I also want to say that process of clan base building was really great. Eventhough I was not the one with high participation on it, I enjoyed time spent with gathering resources because I knew that there is some real purpose behind it.

  • well ok going to say this from a pov view i have played all missions and there is nothing to do accept fly and fly don't get me wrong you have done a great job

    but nothing of interest on mp once you have millons in the bank sorry but i will be moving on nothing to do it's become slow it need s some new goals more to do than the moderators coming on put the same missions on all the time snooze

    in my opinion time to let this game rest to the grave

  • By your pov the game should have been put to rest in 2003 already when the first players stopped having personal goals.

    Maybe your pov isnt relevant for other players.

    Maybe your lack of goals is based on a lack of imagination of what can be done.

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    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • So far, the majority of proposals circle around keeping the model with clan systems and bases. One proposal was to enable non-clan players to build their own "small" personal base (details at the end of the post).


    Assuming that any of the proposed actions would happen after the clan leader(s) / representative(s) are informed that the rent is due, the following is a summary of the proposed actions when a clan fails to honor their end of the bargain:



    Option #1:


    • Remove clan billboards and messages from clan's system.
    • If exists, keep the base intact and lock it.
    • Set the system as available for rent.
      • the new rent price may be influenced by the base and i'ts completion status.


    Option #2:

    • Remove clan billboards and messages from clan's system.
    • List the system as available for rent.
    • If exists, lock and stash the clan base ( = archive it internally, but delete it from the system), so that if and when the clan representatives return, they have the option to:
      • Re-rent the system if is available.
      • Rent another system.
      • Redeploy their previous base in the newly rented system (previous or new one).
    • This option requires additional coding in order to enable base stashing and eventual redeployment.


    Option #3:

    • If clan base doesn't exist:
      • Announce via forum and/or other public method (in-game system messages, carrier pigeons, etc) that the system will be available for rent in <insert amount of time here> if current owner will not pay the rent within that time.


    • If clan base exists:
      • Public announcement that the system rent was not honored.
      • The following actions will gradually happen to the clan's base and system:
        1. Deconstruct a base module / or multiple base modules after every <insert_amount_of_time> pass.
        2. When there are no more modules to deconstruct, deconstruct (=delete) the base.
      • This process would be publicly posted so that everyone to know what to expect when a public announcement like this is made.


    • This is a very good incentive for other people (eg: clan's allies, friends, videochat sponsors, etc) to jump in and help by paying the rent in order to maintain the current ownership.
    • This option may be rather hard to implement in order to have the process automated.



    Enable each player to build their own base

    • This could actually enforce the roleplay (eg: allied clans building multiple bases in close proximity systems, thus fortifying their position).
    • This could also render clan bases useless, as every player (clan and non clan alike) could build their own base - depends on how players see this.
    • Clan systems will eventually end-up hosting multiple individual bases - one for each clan member.
    • Defining which systems are available to build bases in - to be discussed.
    • Payment method for such bases is yet to be decided: monthly VS one-time payment.
    • If monthly payment, then such bases will be subject to deconstruction on a yet to be decided model:
      1. Instant deletion when monthly payment is not honored (aka Option #1 above)
      2. Stash the base, hide the base, redeploy the base when player decided to pay again (aka Option #2 above)
      3. Public announcement and gradual deconstruction of the base (aka Option #3 above)
      4. <Insert other option here>



    I believe that a poll would be useful here, but till we open one, let's see if there are any other ideas/suggestions.

  • I do firmly believe Clan Leaders should pay their system rent, and repercussions should be put in place.

    Maybe making a backup of the latest updated base and removing it from the system after a week or two after the initial month that they haven't paid. After the second month has passed, I'd place the system back up on rent, after those two months, the ownership of that system should be null and void.


    And i do feel like, players should also get a chance to build up in certain places, perhaps like storage outposts in certain systems, a lot less privileges that clan bases have, but it's still a safe space for them, maybe pay a little less then what a clan leader does, but make it not as cheaper as it should be, which gives Clan's another advantage, a lot more privileges for their bases, with clan specific equipment, for slightly more then what a player would pay for a player base

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  • ok might have been a bit harsh about letting game die sorry about that but some good comments about bases so will watch with interest

    but has of now not being drawn back to game

    but i might if some of the above might happens see what the future holds

  • What should happen with clan systems and bases when rent is not paid ? 3

    1. Option #2 - Stash the base, remove it from system and list the system for rent 1 month after the rent hasn't been paid (details below) (2) 67%
    2. Option #3 - Base gradual deconstruction over time, followed by deletion & system relisted for rent (details below) (1) 33%
    3. Option #1 - Relist system and base some time after the rent hasn't been paid (details below) (0) 0%

    (two weeks later)

    We got three proposals for dealing with clan systems and bases AND a suggestion for individual players to be able to construct a less complex base.


    I think that the vote should be focused on dealing with clan systems and bases while considering the individual base construction option - therefore, I am not listing it in this poll.


    Regardless of the option we end-up with, we still have to refine some details - eg: new rent price of the system in case of Option #1; the amount of time a clan has to pay the rent before any option happens; deconstruction system in case of Option #3; etc...









    Option #1 - Relist system and base some time after the rent hasn't been paid


    • Remove clan billboards and messages from clan's system.
    • If exists, keep the base intact and lock it.
    • Set the system as available for rent.
      • The new rent price may be influenced by the base and i'ts completion status.


    Option #2 - Stash the base, remove it from system and list the system for rent 1 month after the rent hasn't been paid

    • Remove clan billboards and messages from clan's system.
    • List the system as available for rent.
    • If exists, lock and stash the clan base ( = archive it internally, but delete it from the system), so that if and when the clan representatives return, they have the option to:
      • Re-rent the system if is available.
      • Rent another system.
      • Redeploy their previous base in the newly rented system (previous or new one).
    • This option requires additional coding in order to enable base stashing and eventual redeployment.


    Option #3 - Base gradual deconstruction over time, and total deconstruction & system relisted for rent


    • If clan base doesn't exist:
      • Announce via forum and/or other public method (in-game system messages, carrier pigeons, etc) that the system will be available for rent in <insert amount of time here> if current owner will not pay the rent within that time.
    • If clan base exists:
      • Public announcement that the rent for system <system_name> was not honored.
      • The following actions will gradually happen to the clan's base and system:
        • Deconstruct a base module / or multiple base modules after every <insert_amount_of_time> pass.
        • When there are no more modules to deconstruct, delete base.
        • This process would be publicly posted so that everyone to know what to expect when a public announcement like this is made.


    • This is a very good incentive for other people (eg: clan's allies, friends, videochat sponsors, etc) to jump in and help by paying the rent in order to maintain the current ownership.
    • Apparently there are hidden clan base features which enable automatic base module deconstruction over time based on the presence of specific commodities and specific amounts. This feature can be activated for all clan bases, or just for those whose owners stopped paying the rent - to be decided.
  • while all of that sounds pretty straight forward and logical the background task to make it happen are enormous.

    I mean... there is no automatic mechanic dealing with these options.


    Every change to the clan systems require manual edits of the systems and creating client patches. E.g. a new clan wants system, base and a billboard.... I have to create it by hand and release a patch containing new billboard models, and updated system, new market files, new bases and rooms...etc.


    But the problems already start earlier. How to check and identify if a clan system was paid?

    Hard to do by identifying the user since that is not always the same person. Some pay one month...others multiple moths.

    It is not so easy to keep track of that.


    On top of all that we have to consider the fact that the clan bases never flawlessly worked. Every few days something breaks and I created an external script to scan the configuration files and fix stuff automatically if something is broken. That script also needs to be rewritten everytime when bases change.


    All that stuff worked more or less... as long we did not have much fluctuation on the clan bases.

    More fluctuations would most certainly lead to pure chaos since I probably would not be able handle all that stuff anymore.

    The 3 options are good but I wanted to give you a bit insight about what background tasks it would trigger what what problems we are facing.

    I think it is good to keep these 3 options in mind but we certainly wont be able to turn them real if we somehow solve the other problems firsts.

    We once more have to take care of the issues step by step.


    Everything starts with the payments and the initital decision to reduce the costs for a clan system down to 5-10€. The new cost structure would allow that and it probably would motivate more people to create clans and build stations. As a result of that this would of course make the management of the clan bases for me very tricky and time consuming.


    First problem here is how to clearly identify which systems belongs to which clan and how to identify which payments go to which system.

    In background on the server every system has an id and every clan base has an id and through various settings these ids are combined. The name of the base that you see in the game and the name of the clan itself has very little influence on the server configuration. If I get a payment for e.g. Dublin I need to figure out the id of the system first, need to verify to which clan the system belongs, compare that id with the settings of all the clans (step by step) to know "rent for the clan base xyz has been paid". And everytime a different clan makes a payment the whole procudure has to be repeated.... every month (unless of course multiple months already were paid, which is easy to lose track of).

    This is the dilemma of the payments vs comparing that with the server config. Essentially the reason why I did not care about such stuff in the past the way it should have been.

    Maybe... (dunno if this actually is a good idea) we should create a management system which displays public info about the status of the clan system

    e.g. "Clan name", "Clan Tag" (required to identify the ownership of the system), "System Name", "Station name", "Station ID", followed by information which months of the year have been paid.

    Clans would refer to their station ID when paying for the system and since this list is public people would see if there are still payments missing. It would not matter if the clan leader pays... or somebody else from the clan since all that matters is that the payment went to the Station ID (which in the end allows me and/or huor to deal with the management easier.


    That of course does not mean that we wont have to deal with manual edits.

    That would be the next step to think about.

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    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


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    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
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    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Maybe... (dunno if this actually is a good idea) we should create a management system which displays public info about the status of the clan system

    e.g. "Clan name", "Clan Tag" (required to identify the ownership of the system), "System Name", "Station name", "Station ID", followed by information which months of the year have been paid.

    Clans would refer to their station ID when paying for the system and since this list is public people would see if there are still payments missing. It would not matter if the clan leader pays... or somebody else from the clan since all that matters is that the payment went to the Station ID (which in the end allows me and/or huor to deal with the management easier.

    ... and here is what I was thinking :) ---> Is possible make dropdown donation menu where can be chosen "clan rent" payment and next to it identificator for concrete clan system/station? This way doesn't matter who does payment, it however needs certain liability from person giving donation.

  • If the system here on the portal which lists the donations could be accessed or there is a possibility to extract that information to be processed by an external tool, then this could be a first step to connect payments with an evaluation system... just an idea...


    Or does woltlab has a shopping system or a similar system?

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  • All I have to add is Great Brainstorming Guys

    We will work all of this out

    ideas & theories are the way forward


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