Freelancer 2.0 vs. Star Citizen (Pay to Play)

"Who wants to pay forever"

@ Bamnesio

There's something I don't get,

if you loose your ship - without an or an expired "insurance" - and don't have the - ingame - money to buy a new one : how will you be able to

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...fly missions for a third party (both NPC and player) until he’s earned enough to buy his own ship again.

since you don't have a ship anymore ????

Only way I came across so far :
buy ingame-money with real life money to buy a ship ... to fly missions.

If I have missed soemthing - any clarification on that would be appreciated.

You get a ship from your contractor, that's logical.

You get a starflyer and the Job to hunt a bunch of sabres

I am playing the Beta of Elite: Dangerous atm and graphics and stuff are all great! Also you just pay once, unlike in Star Citizen.
But a whole galaxy with 200 Billion star systems is really... really really big... Too big I think... It sometimes takes hours to meet other players or even just another ship... It's promising but more as a simulation, because the whole system of flying, docking and stuff is much more complex and realistic.

I prefer Freelancer: Crossfire for just having fun with friends. You can focus on the main things (fighting, exploring, trading) while in Elite you also have to handle all the controls. Flying to the next star system is a question of skill there But for exploring distant systems (that often really exist) it is just great and it's only the Beta, it might become much better in release version

So all in all Freelancer: Crossfire is still the best game of its type.

I was wondering should i post here,or should i let you guys keep tell yourself how bad star Citizen is end how Freelancer is the best there is.
Frankly most of post on this tread are ego oriented end mostly for pleasing the creator of Crossfire then actual real observation of SC end what the game really is.
I never dough that Crossfire is the best Freelancer mod there is end all the work done by this community ,but to compare it to SC with 50 mil.budged is just silly .
Maybe this will clarify some of your fears:

YouTube

Frequently Asked Questions - Star Citizen Wiki

Yeah , i bet in your eye,s 500K people are very stupid reach idiots end Chris is stealing there money but thy are to blind to see it . Anyway.. the end of the day if you don't like it,don't play it ...no one force you to do so end that is the end of that!

You are judging about ppl without really knowing why they have such opinion (and in the end blame me for that). If this is really a better attitude... well... i dont know.

Fact is the people here like freelancer and unlike Star Citizen it proved its worth in the past decade... often being called "a milestone of the genre".
You dont need millions to build a good game. The best games in history with the largest fan bases were created for only a few $.
Even today you dont need 50mio $ to build a game.
Fact is Chris Roberts said he would need 4mio to build it when he asked for money first time.
And yes... in my eyes the ppl which more and more money into the project eventhough the money actually is not needed are in my eyes stupid.
If they would use the moeny to support other game projects instead then the scifi game genre and its players would benefit more from it.

Next thing is... the here discussed insurance system is a valid point why this game is actually pay to play (if you like it or not).
Fact is.. the ppl which dont play for such an insurance always will have a disadvantage.
They lose their ship and get the most crappy piece of junk to fly instead which leaves them no chance against other paying players.
So infact players are indirectly forced to play regulary for the game OR they doomed to be used for target practice of the paying players.
Count 1+1 together and you will notice that this is a hidden subscription model... aka PAY2WIN.

You may dislike that people have negative thoughts about the game but the players have good reason to think this way.
There are many valid points which let the game look more and more unattractive to many players.
Player which clearly will stick to alternatives.
For gods sake alternatives exist.

I really want to plat CF 2.0, but I have been fling the Star citizen arena commander for months and its real nice.

I fully understand that there is diehard fans to every game end i,m fine with that but the analogy of the game is all wrong.
I payed 45 $ last year to SUPORT the project, in return they give me a ship,alpha,beta access end full game + expansion when released + LTI insurance
Yeh i got LTI for only one reason,support the game when no one cared ,but that dont meen i will play GOD mod ,i stile have to pay for the rest of the junk juls like any one ells . The normal insurance that everyone is crying about will be very cheap for IN game credits that you earn doing...whatever.
When the game is released everyone starts on same ground.There will be a cash shop but it wont sale anything to give advantage to players
Us long you dont forget when your insurance expire you wont have to worry bout loosing your ship. Also even you have LTI you stile have to insure all your other components (weapons,armor,shield,cargo) so the advantage of LTI is well... you dont have to remind yourself that expire in 3 monts..that it
To sum it up game will be ONE time Pay when released ...probably around 65$ same us GW2 . till then is crowd funded project end any one can spend whatever they want.
I f you think 50 mil is to match for AAA game that is actually peanuts compare to the big AAA games :

Leviathyn | The Costs of AAA Games Development

So what SC is offer for 50 mil is surely reasonable pries tag ...Full scale universe, develop planets ,First Person shooter ,Cry engine 3 end match more ,there is no other game that come even close to that so before the judgement is applied people should see the finish product first

I,m not taking away what freelancer end crossfire have done for the space community around the world ,but Star Citizen is the future whatever you like it or not
end like i said... no one is force you to play or pay end that is the end of that!

@ Trinity

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You get a ship from your contractor, that's logical.

Is this possibility, to get missions ingame with the ship provided by the contractor, may it be NPC (esp. NPC !)or "living" third party confirmed or
only an educated, "logical" guess - by you or others.

@ Zee

Thanks a lot for the links and the info they contain.
Pay to Play :
But without the possibility mentioned by Trinity - this "Insurance stuff" would have for al least some players the potential to make it as such.
Pay to Win :
"Yes"
Even if "skilled" players with enough (a lot of) time to practize and earn ingame credits might be able to "level" far enough up.
I would render the chance of getting dominated /killed in this process by players with skill time AND money HUGE.

For my part, I consider myself more on the "anti Chris Roberts"-side - not so much an anti-StarCitizen side.

When it all started I jumped enthusiastical on the waggon, getting my "golden ticket" (which proved to more or less wothless, even if annnounced different in the beginning).
But as time went on, with nothing really happen in the first time came the prizing, and then
the ongoing retreat of Chris Roberts from his announced "only pro-SciFi-gaming acting"-attitude,
turning more and more into mega-money-maker, when other developer had already more to show, esp. progress.

In essence : I have been deeply dissapointed by Chris Roberts.

I'm sure it might be a really good game - if you can "afford" it and if it will be released in the state as planned (or at all ).
Perhaps not the "top dog", but a good one.

i dont like chris roberts due to many false promises and his arrogant "we save the genre and actually everything" behavior

The game is not more special than anything else that is currently in development except that it is much more expensive

Looking at Elite and i see a game as beautiful as SC but more creative... more fun

You dont hear anything negative about Elite
That tells alot

Your Argument for Chris Roberts is e relevant. You promise you will release 2.0 last year... but you didn't....Should i hate you for that ? Seriously ?
End what exactly he promise that have not done et ? Game is NOT finish et. You are bashing at him sins the kick starter end i,m pretty sure you want Star Citizen to fail just to say..see i told ya ! I,m sure if someone talk same crap about Crossfire you wont going to like that....right?

Give the man a chance ....will ya !

The Elite dont offer nothing that i cant do in Crossfire. Actually is quite opposite. You cant even get out of your ship ...for cry sake. 10 billion places to go with ONE station on etch map..seriously? Yah game is beautiful ...but don't come even close to SC You can play SC with out even living the ground .First person shooting with full universe...hell yeah
NO one have ever done that...no one! Crysis + Freelancer on ONE game.... i wish good luck to the Elite but Star Citizen is THE GAME!
I don't hear anything negative about Star Citizen except when i log in Swat forums...that tell a loth!

Who appraises StarCitizen to be AAA? Its not yet released and putting it into that category lacks currently a few measurements - like overall success and quality ;D
Useless to price something that is not finished yet... And finally the money required to build a product is also no weight if its good or not. If it costs 200, 100, 50 or 500 million dollars - wont make it better or worst. Its not even an weight for quality - not for the final product - at least not as long as its not released.

I also cannot follow one of the vids fully, explaining what Pay To Win is in conjunction with SC. Pay to win is exactly that the words say - you pay to win. Actually the more weight is on pay - winning for sure is also a matter of skill
And most players have better chances with the better equipment they have. A 2 hours per week time player whose starting and can afford a better equipment with real world money has an unfair advantage as a starting player with not more than time. This overweight might become more marginal as time goes by - but during the starting hours this is really a huge advantage. And no matter how you want to weight being in favor to afford better equipment than to afford time to play. As soon as you pay real world money to buy this advantage its pay to win. Not more not less. Pay to play in oppsite is you need to pay to be able to play -and all starting or playing have the same way to go through the game. sigh remembering the good old board games^^

Chris Roberts has to prove what he was proclaiming. And yet there are just a few things you can play... There are differnt things the player will like, some dont like to walk around, then they would play Sims or something along that genre. Some people like walking around. I believe the most players awaiting a space genre game is to fly around is some vessels instead of walking around, talking with npcs or having a coffee break or or or whatever you do on foot
We will see what the game will be like and if its liked or not. At least there are yet more than half a million contributers?! Which most not mean they will like - when they get what they get^^ Black Prophecy was a good example - apparent they had some financial difficulties too.

I'm not here to add to a flame ware but i do agree the insurance idea seems like a pay to win mechanic. From what i have seen is that many of the ships in star citizen will have multiple crew slots so if you do lose your ship you will be able to sign on as part of another player's crew and complete missions with them in that fashion. Larger ships also have the ability to dock smaller ships within them kinda like carriers from starcraft and obsensibly a crew member can man one of the smaller ships to form a wing and defend larger cap ships from bombers. Or crew members might man a turret on-board granting a bonus in more hectic dog fighting situations. It might be these features that would otherwise go relatively unused if each player had a discrete ship that is driving the desire for insurance from a designer's perspective.

Zee: SC with theirs so far used 'money crusade' hardly can get only positive opinions Critics can be found for sure on more places. ... on other side 'negative' critic is in 'show-business' right on 2nd place behind positive one -> attract attention and this works for SC for collect even more moneys. I believe that they will made great game, but I fear that they will run it as 'money machine' also when finished - everything so far shows that this will be such case.

Zee, I have the feeling like you are personally offended by everyone who has a negative opinion about the game. A matter i dont really understand, actually.

There are valid reasons why many ppl dont like the game and the developer behind it and its absolutely your problem if you are inable to accept valid arguments.

Zee:
"
"Your Argument for Chris Roberts is e relevant. You promise you will
release 2.0 last year... but you didn't....Should i hate you for that ?
Seriously ?

There is no argument here just opinions.... The reason for 2.0 delay is thus: SC has a team of developers who work under Roberts, who in fact has
millions of YOUR pounds to make this game..... OP on the other hand has himself and a handfull of ppl who make 2.0 in their spare time, who have RL's
working and bringing up kids,and use their own time and money to make mod. If 2.0 was rushed out, and not tested fully, everyone would be complaining of the bugs that may have got overlooked.
You are not ASKED to give any money to reserve your spot for when 2.0 comes out, just a donation if you so wish to.
Crossfire 2.0 is free to download, and free to play... Thats the difference !!

And what exactly he promise that have not done yet ? Game is NOT finish yet. You are bashing at him since the kick starter end i,m pretty sure you
want Star Citizen to fail just to say..see i told ya ! I,m sure if
someone talk same crap about Crossfire you wont going to like
that....right?

Paying up front for a game that has not been finished let alone started is just CRAZY talk...Plus the fact if you want to move forward in the game you have to pay
real money to go further, and if you don't play regularly, you get busted down, and YOU think that is fair??
SC is just what it is, Dangle the carrot and the stupid asse's will flock in....... Roberts is living the dream... and with your money !!!
Crossfire always get trashed by others, its life, freedom of choice.

Give the man a chance ....will ya !
No I wont, he had his chance when Freelancer was in the early stage's, He bailed out and had a hissy fit cos things got bad for him.

Elite dont offer nothing that i cant do in Crossfire. Actually is
quite opposite. You cant even get out of your ship ...for cry sake. 10
billion places to go with ONE station on etch map..seriously? Yah game
is beautiful ...but don't come even close to SC You can play SC with out
even living the ground .First person shooting with full universe...hell
yeah

NO one have ever done that...no one! Crysis + Freelancer on ONE game....
i wish good luck to the Elite but Star Citizen is THE GAME!

I don't hear anything negative about Star Citizen except when i log in Swat forums...that tell a lot!

You have to remember Freelancer was made in 2002/3 with the current tech at the time, YES SC looks great cos of the NOW tech, nobody would say otherwise,
Its just the method how you get the game in the first place and other PAY2WIN parts of SC that are wrong and look suspect.
When you spent £50 on a game from a shop, you don't expect to pay a further £50 to complete said game... enuff said.
Yes addon packs you do pay for, but in game no.

REMEMBER:

CROSSFIRE 1.9/2.0 IS FREE TO DOWNLOAD AND PLAY, NO HIDDEN COSTS, NO PAY2WIN, NO STRINGS ATTACHED:

Safe Flying

Rgds

Cygna

All this discussion is pointless^^
Every argument is subjective - so it doesn't matter which opinion you have, you will never find a common base of opinion... Everyone has his/her/its own view on things...
Mine is, that Elite and Freelancer enrich this genre. Others might see it differently. But I don't care about it, because it's not my opinion, which I conceived by informing myself at the sites and so on... So I won't change it for someone who just swings around his argument-hammer, trying to kill every different opinion... No one forces you to read that stuff
For me that's it...

@ Cygna

Hey man ... there is half of Million people that don't give damn you like Star Citizen or not. trust me ...i,m one of them end that go for the whole SWAT forum. You play the game or not is not my problem . My problem is how you all bashing at Chris Roberts end Star Citizen with out even knowing how the FINAL Product will look like end sins you so smart why dont you make A GAME that is better,cheaper,Free to play, sup graphics end the whole nine yards from scratch end then will see , maybe you will do better then Roberts end i be happy to spend 1000$ on your game....till then.. keep telling me how The Elite is a better game , Chris is a scumer end 500k people are stupid idiots ( i,m one of them...remember)....got nothing more to say here!

Wish very best for Crossfire 2.0 whatever it comes out...when it comes out....i should go!

Someone's overprotective and sensitive. As much as it matters, I supported Elite since I am a big fan of the previous installments, and I will not support Star Citizen until I see some solid proof that the game is actually not pay2win and will not require me to spend another $60 on top of the $60 I'll drop for the finished game.

As for CF, I'm here because I want to interact with people that are around and help support the community. 2.0 is done and final tests are being conducted, and with that being said, I think you should be leaving Zee. Nobody likes cancer