Clan bases

There are 40 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by |TSH| ***Tribbs***.

  • It has been now three month since I introduced the changes to the way how Clan systems are being rent.

    Some clans used the opportunity to secure their Systems and the right to have a clan base.


    I think that was enough time to get people/clans used to this new way of dealing with this topic.

    Now we should discuss what happens to systems and clan bases that are no longer owned or paid for.


    There are multiple points of view possible from "if it is not used it can be removed" to "people invested their time in the past and this should at least be rewarded".

    To be honest I am not entirely sure how to deal with this topic.

    I am torn between the fact that owning a system and a station is a privilege that needs to be earned and the circumstance that people in the past have put work into building the stations.

    Maybe a removal of the rights and the stations with the option to get that stuff back somewhen in future would work.


    What do you think?

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Remove 1lvl of station per month till station face danger of total destruction when last module will remain. It was a good fun to build a station in time when I have played so if clan decides restore activity, his members will have something to do every time when log to the server and more reasons to play regularly. This way there can be also given a time after which system will become free to be rented by someone else. You can also decide to give some time before "abandoned" station will start getting damage when there will be "only" removed access.

  • Hm, hard to tell, as there are more modules than months of a year I would vote for a max duration of 1 year. This should be enough time to get back on track. If the system or the clan base is not paid then the privileges must be revoked - this is not unfair, but fair to all other players regularly playing and keeping the community active.

    signature.png

  • to be honest this sounds a bit complicated


    It might be better to give clans a 3 months grace period after which the base is removed completely. Maybe creating a backup that can be used if needed later.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • If you want easy but working solution: give 3 months with base acess locked and then do backup and removal.

  • A clarification because there seem to be surprised reactions just recently regarding the Clan base situation.

    (these surprise reactions are even a surprise to me)


    Lets put it straight. The clan bases of unpaid clan systems got removed last weekend.

    Huor wrote something which sums up the reason for that decision very accurately.

    If the system or the clan base is not paid then the privileges must be revoked - this is not unfair, but fair to all other players regularly playing and keeping the community active.

    The privileges clans with clan systems and bases had were based on the clans duty to fulfill their part of the deal. That is what the clans agreed to in order to get their special status on the server and all related privileges.

    It certainly was not my intention to break this deal... I just reacted on a very undesirable and unfair situation that has been ongoing for way too long.


    I decided against the technical over complicated suggestions made on this thread.

    Either you are pregnant or you are not. "A little pregnant" does not exist. Either you stick to a deal or you don't.

    Some clans decided to stick to the deal and therefore contribute to keep this server and this community running.... others had their priorities elsewhere.

    If you read this now and think "but if I would have known.... ", you did know the deal and you have successfully managed to ignore the situation for many months. And that is why I am surprised now that you react surprised.


    I mean, we discussed this topic in November 2020 openly here on the Forum and I announced changes which I would introduce early 2021.

    Actually the discussion reached back even further till early September/October where we switched servers to reduce monthly costs, which btw. also meant to reduce the monthly cost of a clan system to 50% of the original amount (with the option to go even lower if enough clans would contribute).

    In January 2021 I eventually introduced the new management system for the System rents, explained in detail how it works, asked the clans to test it and give feedback. This tool gives EVERY clan member a way to check if the clan is still doing its part of the deal. The argument "I did not know" therefore is off the table (unless of course you have been away and just recently returned, but I don't think that many people can claim that).

    Starting with January 2021 I gave the clans a grace period of 3 months (this has been discussed and announced here on the forum), which means a decision how to deal with the situation was due in April 2021. This apparently has lead to this fancy discussions we are currently in.

    Since I obviously never released anything mod related in time, the changes (the removal of the clan bases) were done in May... more precisely the Sunday a week ago.


    The changes done are not complete, yes, I know about that.

    My time right now is just VERY limited and I will take care of clan billboards, system announcements, console rights and forum rights once I find a few spare minutes.

    Maybe further changes are in some cases not even needed if people see this a wakening call.

    Dunno.


    The removal of the stations of course triggered feelings, confusion and most certainly "strong opinions".

    Sure.

    But if you feel surprised by the situation and the resulting decision you probably should ask yourself for the reason. Apparently you have successfully ignored the public discussions and announcement prior the server switches which happened in September/October last year. You also must have completely ignored the discussions we had about this topic in November last year, January this year and eventually April this year. In my eyes it is really hard to ignore topics which are discussed that often on a forum which shows you the latest posts, unread posts, recent hot topics and even proposes topics with similar content.

    Against certain beliefs it is not my job to contact every player individually to inform them about upcoming changes. No, that is not my job... I don't even have time for that. That is why important stuff is announced and discussed openly on the forum so that EVERYONE can read it.

    There were plenty of opportunities to do that.

    And no, fuck Discord. Discord is where you spam and where short lived discussions happen but it never will be the place announce stuff or do important discussions.

    We have a forum for that and that worked flawlessly for more than 18 years. I see no reason to change that.

    Every important information put into Discord is burried under spam in less than 3 hours. I won't allow that to happen.

    You can use it to do your discussions and even to spam if you feel like it but you should never expect me to scroll through pages of non-sense just to find the tiny little fraction of information that you consider important to share.


    But back the clan bases.

    I received questions about what happened to the stuff stored on the removed clan bases.

    Well, I have no idea what stuff you have stored there. I did not look at the bases... but I probably already mentioned that I don't really have much time for such stuff lately.

    Generally speaking, non of the clan bases is lost. Nothing was deleted permanently. You just lost access to it atm.

    Sorting out this issue will be done for sure but that will take time.

    I somehow have the feeling that no item on the clan bases has an importance that would ruin your gameplay in the next few days if you don't have access to it.

    Like I said... the bases and all their content still exists.

    You just lost access to it... and I repeat it again.... only you and your ignorance are to blame for that.


    I have openly communicated the situation and for sure did my part of making it easier for clans to keep an overview and even did the necessary steps to reduce costs for the clans.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I Disagree Discord can be seen by All No sifting through Threads it is Just there for all 2 see, some sort of Countdown on the Portal May have helped ,your base will be Removed in 10-9 -8 7 days trying 2 Read all posts is not possible ,Base owners or Clan leaders should have been PM ed, But hey Only my Dumb Assed Opinion.


    :salutesFools Rush In Where Angels Fear To Tread :patsch: :salutes
    :salutes A Fool and Their Credits are Easily Parted :D
    :salutes Softly, Softly, Catchy Freelancer :P:salutes
    :salutes SMILE :) It Breaks up the Time Between Disasters :thumbsup:
    :salutes I can Only Please one Person Per Day.Today is Not Your Day And Tomorrow does Not Look Good Either :thumbdown: :salutes

  • Yeah, you are right.

    We disagree.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I am now put off using discord for any information or announcements about crossfire, just so much youtube stuff being posted there. Gotta try to sift through miles of crap to find anything related to the game now. Discord channel has turned into a youtube and meme spam page.


    As regards to the base info, I found it easy to find. The system rent page is easily located off the top menu under tools tab.

    Also as regards to messaging clan leaders, Some have gone AWOL and some might not have even been on the portal for a while so message will not be seen. As a clan member I took it onboard to check the system rent page myself.

  • let's try to prove a point.

    This is my message to tribbs on discord, 25th March 2021 (you have to scroll up a few hundred pages or know exactly what you are searching for).

    Quote

    Look.... in January I introduced the new mechanic to track clan system ownership and therefore the access to clan bases. This was discussed end of 2020... introduced in January... and I wrote back then that I will observe the situation and the development over the next 3 months (giving people the chance to sort out stuff). This in result means that I will have to decide about the fate of certain systems and the bases in them next month. That decision will not be based on likability of people or the number of complaints I got. It will be based on the criteria we discussed end of 2020. I stick to what I have announced.

    This would be the prime example why sharing such info on discord does not work. This also can be considered a PM to the clan which did not lead to any changes in the end.

    Therefore any complaints regarding me not communicating correctly are bullshit.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  •  Sea of Shadows System

    Clan: The Steel Hearts

    Leader: |TSH|_MF

    Clan Tag: |TSH|

    Clan Base: Libra_Tower


    Information is Wrong Martind has not been Clan Leader for a Long Time Gearhead is Leader


    :salutesFools Rush In Where Angels Fear To Tread :patsch: :salutes
    :salutes A Fool and Their Credits are Easily Parted :D
    :salutes Softly, Softly, Catchy Freelancer :P:salutes
    :salutes SMILE :) It Breaks up the Time Between Disasters :thumbsup:
    :salutes I can Only Please one Person Per Day.Today is Not Your Day And Tomorrow does Not Look Good Either :thumbdown: :salutes

  • Maybe somebody forgot to send me a PM.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • No Idea ask Martind he is a Super Moderator

    We are Just Grunts

    I am sure the Info is on One of the Many Threads


    :salutesFools Rush In Where Angels Fear To Tread :patsch: :salutes
    :salutes A Fool and Their Credits are Easily Parted :D
    :salutes Softly, Softly, Catchy Freelancer :P:salutes
    :salutes SMILE :) It Breaks up the Time Between Disasters :thumbsup:
    :salutes I can Only Please one Person Per Day.Today is Not Your Day And Tomorrow does Not Look Good Either :thumbdown: :salutes

    Edited once, last by |TSH| ***Tribbs*** ().

  • Easiest way (which worked in numerous others cases too), is use ticket system. That one is ideal for ask changes in places which have restricted access. Btw, I did not followed much closely discussion about renting systems (you know, I play other games for years now), but I checked it now and it looks solid.

  • That is correct. Martind did announce, that he had resigned from the clan ! He had also expressed his interests were in other games. And has looked on in the forum from time to time, and is aware of the rent subject posting his views there a couple of times. Gearhead then took over the position. He like others has r/l matters to attend too and a lot are experiencing hard times. At this moment the clan is or has died. Like again so have others. The view is there is no need to operate a clan base anymore. Just sitting there really for a target for ru when he wants to duck in agitate trouble. The one key point Libra base has it was the first clan base built and the first to be unbuilt lol.

    The main point is this is a game and more to the point r/l is more important. Not the bitch fighting that breaks out here from time to time. Watching over the years all players want to do is get on forum wanting to cut corners by getting spoon feed where everything is. Instead of what the game intended and find out where it all is in SPACE.


    Btw, I did not followed much closely discussion about renting systems (you know, I play other games for years now),

  • why did we discuss so much, just restore Clan base and make a topic to announce like pay for rent or the base will be remove in ... ( a month, a week,...)

    ffs I did create such a topic months ago,

    If people cared about that stuff they could easily have reacted by now based on the many discussions/announcements here on the forum and also based on the stuff that was discussed on discord.


    The whole discussion now about who is leader of the clan, who took over, who went inactive is also total non-sense. Nothing of that would have prevented any other clan member to jump in and take care of such issues. There is no rule, no limitation, nothing that would have prevented this.

    The data about the clan leaders on the tool was fetched from the servers permission settings (as they are atm). I did add this info to give clans the chance to check if that stuff is still valid and if neccessary give me the information to update it. In January btw. I asked to test the new system and give feedback which would have been the perfect opportunity to contact me and get that stuff corrected. A simple short PM or a ticket and that tiny issue would have been fixed.


    However, that all is totally unimportant in relation to the initial problems.

    I could have decided to shut down the server mid 2020 and all my problems would have been solved. I would not need to take care of non-stop complaints, I would have gained a lot of free time, there would be no need to do further development of the mod, no need to give further support, no need to fix other people issues.

    Instead, I worked my arse off to do the server switches end of 2020 which allowed you to keep playing the game. I worked my arse off to create and introduce the new management tool for the systems to make it easier for you to keep track of that stuff and I did reduce the individual costs by 50%, allowing the clans do to their part of the deal more easily.

    I've spent my valuable time communicating all these changes and updates at length and in detail in the same way I announce and discuss every fucking tiny change with the members of this community.

    Ok, if it is too much for you to read my announcements and the official dicussion topics I maybe should stop discussing anything with the community. If you don't care, why should I?

    Oh you want to be personally informed by me via PM or on Discord. Ok, let's do that. For that to happen I just need to stop all my other work on this community and the mod. My day only has 24 hours and since my RL obligations (Job etc.) since January pretty much took over the majority of this daily timeframe, I definately won't be able to do any development on Crossfire while regulary informing every player individually.

    You just have to make a decision.


    Guess what Huor is right.

    It is a matter of fairness.

    Three clans fulfill their part of the deal and therefore are to 50% responsible that the server still exists. The other 50% fortunately were covered by people which jumped in to take care of the rest. We are not in the red numbers and most certainly not in a dire need atm because of that.

    But it is a matter of fairness and a matter of reliablity.

    You can't expect to keep using privileges while not doing your part of the deal. That is unfair towards the people which actually earned their privileges by sticking to the deal.

    And you most certainly don't have the right to tell me what I have to do (after all that I already have done) when you are not willing to do the bare minimum of what is expected from you.


    I sometimes really have the feeling that people are more interested in complaining and sabotaging my efforts than to help me moving forward and making progress.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I will look on things and update wiki with info about renting etc. It may help new people oriente much easier and shouldn't be too difficult.


    Even if this is sad thing for me with TSH clan, there was long time overdue fair dealing between those supporting server costs and those who don't.


    And one last thing which I want add to this subject is, that there was always possible discuss privately with OP if serious RL things happened and resulted in troubles with rent pay.

  • I am not aware of which clans are not fulfilling their deals or anything, but for the sake of server activity I was wondering if it's possible to allow clans to keep adding resources / upgrading clan bases while the base is locked for those first 3 months, just no access to any item/profit from the clan base. After which the base would get backed up and removed which would be more of a difference from the "warning" / grace period of 3 months. If there's 0 access to it, it might as well be removed (with backup) from first month, would make no difference. If this looks like it can get abused, the grace period could be just 1 month (with partial access), after which the base access is fully locked for 2 more months, then removed with backup.


    Even after the base and system rights get removed, their home system should still be locked from being purchased/rented by other clans. They might not have privileges in that system anymore, and maybe never get to rent it again to bring back the backed up clan base... but it would feel more game breaking (their ties to the game at least) for members of a clan to see their system used by enemies, just because they can, or hate, etc. There are enough systems for all, and some clans might just come back after years away :D

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Edited once, last by Michael ().

  • I don't think this would be possible considering how the clan bases work.


    There is hate between clans on the server? Nah...



    Short update: the clan bases in Custodian and Purian Lake got restored.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!