Clan bases

It has been now three month since I introduced the changes to the way how Clan systems are being rent.

Some clans used the opportunity to secure their Systems and the right to have a clan base.

I think that was enough time to get people/clans used to this new way of dealing with this topic.

Now we should discuss what happens to systems and clan bases that are no longer owned or paid for.

There are multiple points of view possible from "if it is not used it can be removed" to "people invested their time in the past and this should at least be rewarded".

To be honest I am not entirely sure how to deal with this topic.

I am torn between the fact that owning a system and a station is a privilege that needs to be earned and the circumstance that people in the past have put work into building the stations.

Maybe a removal of the rights and the stations with the option to get that stuff back somewhen in future would work.

What do you think?

to be honest this sounds a bit complicated

It might be better to give clans a 3 months grace period after which the base is removed completely. Maybe creating a backup that can be used if needed later.

A clarification because there seem to be surprised reactions just recently regarding the Clan base situation.

(these surprise reactions are even a surprise to me)

Lets put it straight. The clan bases of unpaid clan systems got removed last weekend.

Huor wrote something which sums up the reason for that decision very accurately.

Quote from Huor

If the system or the clan base is not paid then the privileges must be revoked - this is not unfair, but fair to all other players regularly playing and keeping the community active.

The privileges clans with clan systems and bases had were based on the clans duty to fulfill their part of the deal. That is what the clans agreed to in order to get their special status on the server and all related privileges.

It certainly was not my intention to break this deal... I just reacted on a very undesirable and unfair situation that has been ongoing for way too long.

I decided against the technical over complicated suggestions made on this thread.

Either you are pregnant or you are not. "A little pregnant" does not exist. Either you stick to a deal or you don't.

Some clans decided to stick to the deal and therefore contribute to keep this server and this community running.... others had their priorities elsewhere.

If you read this now and think "but if I would have known.... ", you did know the deal and you have successfully managed to ignore the situation for many months. And that is why I am surprised now that you react surprised.

I mean, we discussed this topic in November 2020 openly here on the Forum and I announced changes which I would introduce early 2021.

Actually the discussion reached back even further till early September/October where we switched servers to reduce monthly costs, which btw. also meant to reduce the monthly cost of a clan system to 50% of the original amount (with the option to go even lower if enough clans would contribute).

In January 2021 I eventually introduced the new management system for the System rents, explained in detail how it works, asked the clans to test it and give feedback. This tool gives EVERY clan member a way to check if the clan is still doing its part of the deal. The argument "I did not know" therefore is off the table (unless of course you have been away and just recently returned, but I don't think that many people can claim that).

Starting with January 2021 I gave the clans a grace period of 3 months (this has been discussed and announced here on the forum), which means a decision how to deal with the situation was due in April 2021. This apparently has lead to this fancy discussions we are currently in.

Since I obviously never released anything mod related in time, the changes (the removal of the clan bases) were done in May... more precisely the Sunday a week ago.

The changes done are not complete, yes, I know about that.

My time right now is just VERY limited and I will take care of clan billboards, system announcements, console rights and forum rights once I find a few spare minutes.

Maybe further changes are in some cases not even needed if people see this a wakening call.

Dunno.

The removal of the stations of course triggered feelings, confusion and most certainly "strong opinions".

Sure.

But if you feel surprised by the situation and the resulting decision you probably should ask yourself for the reason. Apparently you have successfully ignored the public discussions and announcement prior the server switches which happened in September/October last year. You also must have completely ignored the discussions we had about this topic in November last year, January this year and eventually April this year. In my eyes it is really hard to ignore topics which are discussed that often on a forum which shows you the latest posts, unread posts, recent hot topics and even proposes topics with similar content.

Against certain beliefs it is not my job to contact every player individually to inform them about upcoming changes. No, that is not my job... I don't even have time for that. That is why important stuff is announced and discussed openly on the forum so that EVERYONE can read it.

There were plenty of opportunities to do that.

And no, fuck Discord. Discord is where you spam and where short lived discussions happen but it never will be the place announce stuff or do important discussions.

We have a forum for that and that worked flawlessly for more than 18 years. I see no reason to change that.

Every important information put into Discord is burried under spam in less than 3 hours. I won't allow that to happen.

You can use it to do your discussions and even to spam if you feel like it but you should never expect me to scroll through pages of non-sense just to find the tiny little fraction of information that you consider important to share.

But back the clan bases.

I received questions about what happened to the stuff stored on the removed clan bases.

Well, I have no idea what stuff you have stored there. I did not look at the bases... but I probably already mentioned that I don't really have much time for such stuff lately.

Generally speaking, non of the clan bases is lost. Nothing was deleted permanently. You just lost access to it atm.

Sorting out this issue will be done for sure but that will take time.

I somehow have the feeling that no item on the clan bases has an importance that would ruin your gameplay in the next few days if you don't have access to it.

Like I said... the bases and all their content still exists.

You just lost access to it... and I repeat it again.... only you and your ignorance are to blame for that.

I have openly communicated the situation and for sure did my part of making it easier for clans to keep an overview and even did the necessary steps to reduce costs for the clans.

Yeah, you are right.

We disagree.

let's try to prove a point.

This is my message to tribbs on discord, 25th March 2021 (you have to scroll up a few hundred pages or know exactly what you are searching for).

Quote

Look.... in January I introduced the new mechanic to track clan system ownership and therefore the access to clan bases. This was discussed end of 2020... introduced in January... and I wrote back then that I will observe the situation and the development over the next 3 months (giving people the chance to sort out stuff). This in result means that I will have to decide about the fate of certain systems and the bases in them next month. That decision will not be based on likability of people or the number of complaints I got. It will be based on the criteria we discussed end of 2020. I stick to what I have announced.

This would be the prime example why sharing such info on discord does not work. This also can be considered a PM to the clan which did not lead to any changes in the end.

Therefore any complaints regarding me not communicating correctly are bullshit.

Maybe somebody forgot to send me a PM.

Quote from thanhrui

why did we discuss so much, just restore Clan base and make a topic to announce like pay for rent or the base will be remove in ... ( a month, a week,...)

ffs I did create such a topic months ago,

If people cared about that stuff they could easily have reacted by now based on the many discussions/announcements here on the forum and also based on the stuff that was discussed on discord.

The whole discussion now about who is leader of the clan, who took over, who went inactive is also total non-sense. Nothing of that would have prevented any other clan member to jump in and take care of such issues. There is no rule, no limitation, nothing that would have prevented this.

The data about the clan leaders on the tool was fetched from the servers permission settings (as they are atm). I did add this info to give clans the chance to check if that stuff is still valid and if neccessary give me the information to update it. In January btw. I asked to test the new system and give feedback which would have been the perfect opportunity to contact me and get that stuff corrected. A simple short PM or a ticket and that tiny issue would have been fixed.

However, that all is totally unimportant in relation to the initial problems.

I could have decided to shut down the server mid 2020 and all my problems would have been solved. I would not need to take care of non-stop complaints, I would have gained a lot of free time, there would be no need to do further development of the mod, no need to give further support, no need to fix other people issues.

Instead, I worked my arse off to do the server switches end of 2020 which allowed you to keep playing the game. I worked my arse off to create and introduce the new management tool for the systems to make it easier for you to keep track of that stuff and I did reduce the individual costs by 50%, allowing the clans do to their part of the deal more easily.

I've spent my valuable time communicating all these changes and updates at length and in detail in the same way I announce and discuss every fucking tiny change with the members of this community.

Ok, if it is too much for you to read my announcements and the official dicussion topics I maybe should stop discussing anything with the community. If you don't care, why should I?

Oh you want to be personally informed by me via PM or on Discord. Ok, let's do that. For that to happen I just need to stop all my other work on this community and the mod. My day only has 24 hours and since my RL obligations (Job etc.) since January pretty much took over the majority of this daily timeframe, I definately won't be able to do any development on Crossfire while regulary informing every player individually.

You just have to make a decision.

Guess what Huor is right.

It is a matter of fairness.

Three clans fulfill their part of the deal and therefore are to 50% responsible that the server still exists. The other 50% fortunately were covered by people which jumped in to take care of the rest. We are not in the red numbers and most certainly not in a dire need atm because of that.

But it is a matter of fairness and a matter of reliablity.

You can't expect to keep using privileges while not doing your part of the deal. That is unfair towards the people which actually earned their privileges by sticking to the deal.

And you most certainly don't have the right to tell me what I have to do (after all that I already have done) when you are not willing to do the bare minimum of what is expected from you.

I sometimes really have the feeling that people are more interested in complaining and sabotaging my efforts than to help me moving forward and making progress.

I don't think this would be possible considering how the clan bases work.

There is hate between clans on the server? Nah...

Short update: the clan bases in Custodian and Purian Lake got restored.