Battleships

There are 35 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by LordRaydenMK.

    Hi All :-)


    I have been flying around a nice wee battleship and I have to say it is very frustrating.


    1, Docking; Docking in jump holes (especially inner core) and trade lanes (especially altair) is very difficult and time consuming as in lining it all up...i wish this could be looked into.


    2, Bots and bats: WTF? I mean come on why have none to use? every other vessel has them and i cannot figure why in a battleship you cannot use them...madness


    3, Shields; why is it that there are no way to upgrade the strength of the shield against various types of weapons. This is a very sad over sight as any pod farming in altair for example, in the battleship is pointless. Surely a graviton or molecular battleship shield should be on offer somewhere...How about shield regen upgrade? With the length of time this mod has been in service throughout the years why is it these options never been developed for battleships? Why not have a super expensive battleship option for battleships?


    4, Firepower: 8 guns and 2 pathetic flak guns and some near useless torps...Oh come on! it is a battleship it should sprout guns from all sorts for different enemies from other battleship to bombers to VHF. This was the saddest aspect of the mod the firepower is pathetic on a battleship. It is a shame the dev's couldn't have the courage to look at and apply some of the neat ways the discovery ver 4.877 mod made Battleships fun to fly and use.


    I so humbly ask the dev's to please consider changing the battleship/DN and consider including my suggestions in an upcoming update.



    A battleship/DN and or carriers encounter should be feared not laughed at by VHF pilots


    Thanks
    Chron1c

    @ 1.
    If you can`t dock at the first TL structure and got "stuck" -> target the next and hit F3 ("Autodock") :) fine almost every time
    (However, you're right that docking at stations CAN be a nuisance, some BS/DN more than others :S )
    @ 2.
    What do you think you would need on Bots and Bats to repair such MASSIVE hull and shields ? =O
    They are strong enough.
    @ 3.
    As said : they ARE strong enough - for the purposes they have in the Crossfire universe
    @ 4.
    The firepower of the BS/DN turrets ARE massivly updated already - compared to CF 1.9 ;) . They are - depending on your abilities a VEERY nice method of podding. However, every captain should know what fight he can choose - and what fight to avoid.


    In general :
    BS/DN are here for fighting other BS/DN mainly - and make it ... interesting. Therefor their weaponry (BS.torps), armor and shieldings are sufficient.
    They are NOT designed to erase whole fleets of npc's single-handed. For that - as in real world flkeets as well - a FIGHTER ESCORT has to be in place.


    Quote from Chron1c

    A battleship/DN and or carriers encounter should be feared not laughed at by VHF pilots

    ... kk, lets meet then : you in a VHF me in a BS and we will see who loughs at whom :D


    It takes - at least - two, better more fighters, that are purposly well equipped (heaviest torpedos and missiles, the more the better) for real pilots to down a BS or DN.


    What's left :
    ... well, the docking issues, but I don't know if there might be technical probs (enginewise) to change that.


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    'experience'


    ... this simple word is all between a devastating BS usage. They are now (CF 2.0) deadly enough for NPCs killing as also players in fighters. This ofc not works in all cases, but even very top pvpers need solid amount of time to get BS (included dreadnoughts) down.



    'Cooperation'


    ... BSs are not meant to be used solo, theirs true power will reveal when used other players support (escort, repair services = repair ship). If used properly with mentioned support, it very significantly change fight balance.



    ... this all said, BS are as good as pilot using them. Also docking can be learned and experienced pilots knows move very fast with these big ships. Do BS stronger, as are now, will simply not happen bcs Crossfire was designed in 1st place as 'fighters' mod.


    ... new pilot can't expect he will be invincible once buy a BS, this is not how it is in CF mod.

    .. and pathetic torps and flak turrets :D ... maybe it need also some skills how to use them (i think they both works very well ;) )

    1. docking problems are there due to the limitation of this game engine (this can not be fixed without absolutely screwing up fighter combat or the way how the FL universe works)
    2. battleships require hundreds of bats/bots for just one heal (this is a problem for the char integrity) and considering the large amount of hitpoints that such ships have it would totally imbalance Battelships compared to fighters
    3. battleship shields are limited due to of the FL engine and its resource limitations (hp types)
    4. this is not discovery (for gods sake); battleships have a clear purpose in CF: dealing with other battleships and for exactly that purpose they are perfectly equiped

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    Thank you all for your replies.


    1, I am aware of the issues with docking as it is apparent with other mods :-) just thought perhaps the dev's may have sorted it. My main gripe is with the bottom trade lane in altair even with f3 it is a pain. Nonetheless thanks for the input upon this issue ;-)


    2, Yes about 200 bots and bats but again what with removing them, they become important when facing multiple NPC BS as I like hunting then down as NPC VHF are easy (unless your in altair with multiple VHF using gattlings, found that out the hard way). Still wouldn't hurt having them...


    3, As i'm not experienced in the nuance of what the FL engine can do or not do, so I cannot comment upon this, but it seems a shame that the Battleship shield is so limited, oh well thanks for putting me in my place, but i'm sure the discovery mod has something there but haven't played it since it first come out so cannot remember.


    4, Here I sense a little defensiveness with the replies... I have played freelancer and all sorts mods for the past 10 years OMG perhaps even longer jezz i must be an ol fart! Still I'm not saying i'm super skilled or what ever but I am very handy with a gun lol :-P I have been flying battleships in the CF universe since since CF ver 1.6 as well as many other mods so I know my way around. Anyways back to the firepower point... My character in RP is a criminal, and who has through means of deception bought a liberty BS. This criminal is complaining that this boat ain't got no punch and I want to put some more weapons on it so I have an edge against house VHF squadrons and BS's...Surely something can be done! This character works alone without support so generally pick fights without support...so how about a little love huh? Come on dev's surely you can add one ore two more turrets to the BS/DN?! How about a mortar or two?!


    Yes it is CF ver 2.0, but nonetheless with the very long ranged and rapid firepower of VHF the BS/DN are impotent and should be able to be used effectively in an autonomous manner as not every one can hang with 2-3 others for support as you fly through hostile space. if you have billions what can you spend it on other than different flavor VHF or impotent capital ships and or waste of time trains...Kinda limiting for those wanting to blast through the inner core and kick some dom butt, this is a game and should be fun, reality is different, so why cant BS's and DN have more turrets? The discovery mod has made capital ships fun, so why can't the CF mod?


    Chron1c

    Quote from Chron1c

    The discovery mod has made capital ships fun, so why can't the CF mod?

    ....

    Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

    4. this is not discovery...

    .... should be clearly understandable.


    Crossfire is made for fighters and esp for role-play of living persons. ... and not for

    Quote from Chron1c

    to blast through the inner core and kick some dom butt

    single-handed.


    Every change you demand would skip the intended balance for fighters and make cf something .... that's NOT CF anymore.


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    Quote

    This character works alone without support so ...

    this is it. Main idea behind many things in CF mod is about cooperation with others. Altair (as is now in 2.0) or Inner Core alone are especially for BSs 'nogo'. You can pass both areas, but are not able stay there too long without support.

    and after all this is just logical how it is made now in CF. one BS can take down some fighters. yes. but even a big fat BS in RL needs support by different other ships/warplanes when it enters the real battlefield.

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    Yeah inner core or the alien systems are better visited in a group ( when this group is supported by a BS and a Repair ship, this is great!). The hint for this is already given in the campaign when you are using the jump hole in Omega-3.


    On your way through all the places there are not only some fighters spawning in your way but also full fleets with a carrier. There you could just go past them since it is not your goal to kill them, but if you go outside of the campaign facing them is why you are going to these places, and with a single BS or VHF chances are limited.


    To me cruiser/destroyers are still a little too weak and killed by VHF too easily ( while killing e.g. Protons is very hard since they have mutliples of your HP).

    cruiser/destroyers: Best use these which have shield resistant to CDs and Cloaking Device (once will be working without issues) and you have awesome cap-ship killer in Inner Core. With this you can do really alot killing for Dooms fleets even if flying solo :) ... ofc not for fight fighters or gunboats, these ships need to be avoided at all costs when used cruiser/destroyers.

    .. but very short range.

    Thank you all for such awesome replies, very informative.


    I'm aiming for coalition turrets as they have the most bang for buck. Range is an issue in altair as gatt's have significant range so do the Dom ships, so short range weapons are just not workable.


    As for the inner cloud...if i can get the damned thing to dock with speed ill have some fun...last time i went in there i got caught up with mines, wasn't paying attention when in cruise lol :-) Oh yes there is another way to get the inner cloud and it isn't just Omega 3 ;-) not gonna say where coz that isn't fair, as perhaps you ought to look for yourself lol.


    Without seeming like a nag...Oh please dev please gimme more turrets on my battleship in the next update it so needs them ;-) Oh and Swat_OP-R8R the whole point was for the battleship to be out of balance with the fighter lol.


    Quote from NucNuc

    Chron1c wrote:
    to blast through the inner core and kick some dom butt
    single-handed.


    Every change you demand would skip the intended balance for fighters and make cf something .... that's NOT CF anymore.


    Lets look into that comment...shall we? What IS CF but a mod of Freelancer, right? Fighters are old news most long term players of Freelancer have done VHF to death and seek something more fun, and the scope and size of the CF universe would make for a lot of fun to be had. I have a perfect example, I was looking through the Freelancer servers the other day and say 100+ people on the 24/7 RP Discovery server! I mean why is that? Surely not because of the VHF they have to offer...Perhaps it is number of different types of ships big and small, the different ways to make money form trading to mining or is it the vast number of places to visit...I don't know, but when I log into the CF 2.0 server I never see more that 20 at any time. Most of the time it is <10 people...So what IS CF?

    Quote from Chron1c

    ...So what IS CF?


    An old fashioned, VHF centered FL-mod, made by players, who like EXACTLY that kind of playing to be played by players who like EXACTLY that kind of playing.


    ... nothing modelled for or after the "taste of the many"
    ... nothing, that trys to "compete" with other mods for the number of players online.


    Admittingly it could host much more players
    ... if players wish to play the CF-style they are welcomed HERE
    ... if players wish playing the disco-style they are welcomed THERE (I suppose)


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    Nicely put...


    Nonetheless it is a shame that such a fine Freelancer mod such as CF 2.0 is going to be relegated to "good single player mod" but the multi player is a little naff and stuffy. Only one server, and if your ping is poor (ping of 300+) then no chance of ever being a contributing member of the community as it wouldn't be enjoyable, so playing CF 2.0 on a local server offering a ping that will give a player a fair chance when PvP will never happen, so relegates those from Australia and pacific region nations unable to to enjoy the mod for what purpose it was made.


    Also if you have played freelancer as long as I have, I have done VHF to death and want something more...dynamic and fun than another VHF bash fest. I know this for a fact, many more old freelancer players feel the same.


    All I asked for is for the BS to be made more fun and dynamic but no...very sad indeed.


    If the human BS was "more" when the big scrap by the black hole (in single player) would have been more of a contest than in the end a suicide run having to end it...

    There obviously is not a way how to made everyone pleased. You may accept how is Crossfire done and play it or no. Multiplayer ATM is still beta, with many new functions inactive and waiting for real testing. Crossfire was not and will not be a mod where battleship have 1st importance position. That you not like this will not change this fact. Here on swat was in the past more discussion exactly about the same -> "make BS a SUPER INVINCIBLE TOTAL DESTRUCTIVE POWER ... ;) ... and well ..., this not happened. This said, is really pointless ask about adding turrets etc. for BSs. General balance was done already and there are not any resources, will or intention to change this. Could be really polite from you to accept NO when was said in this matter.

    I accept this to be a sad affair...My intention was NOT for the battleship to be invincible but at least better than the piss poor effort that has been made of it thus far...


    I accept that CF 2.0 is primarily a single player mod and not really a serious contender to a top rated freelancer multiplayer experience.


    Curious why no comment was made in regards to the single server ;-)


    I wish the CF community well, i hope all who play this mod enjoys the experience, as single player was a lot of fun.


    Chron1c signing off