Ukrainian War

There are 38 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by SWAT_OP-R8R.

  • Day 7 of war in Ukraine.


    54f63cca-a3fc-42be-8044-f451144c9cc2.jpegTo be honest I was not sure if I should write this, if I should say anything about the ongoing conflict. This is a place for gamers from all around the world and discussing politics never really was a good idea in an online community due to the many colliding points of view.

    It is also true that it is hard to write something without getting strong feelings involved. It is really hard. Everyday new video footage appears showing the intensity of the conflict, the pain and suffering of the people.


    However, I think this topic needs to be addressed... without the emotional aspect of it.

    No member of this community is responsible for any shit that currently happens. We are here because we are gamers, because we like the games we play and the people we play with, regardless of their country of origin, their skin color or religion.

    I don't want to put the blame on people which actually had nothing to do with the decisions that did lead to this terrible situation. That would be just wrong and I believe that both sides are suffering from this conflict.


    My point of view is a bit biased due to the fact that I live in a western country. I experienced the very early part of my life growing up in a country dominated by soviet rulership but I think that this does not matter much at all.

    Today I consider the Russian government an aggressor that is destabilizing the world (or at least tries to).

    At this point I need to clearly point out that my critics on Russia do not mean that I am ok with all the actions and policies of western countries (especially the USA). I think that seperate topics need to be viewed and discusses seperately, therefore let's just stick with the recent events.

    I most certainly will make the mistake to name Russia or Russians in general on the following lines while I actually mean the Russian government. I apologize beforehand.



    The reasons for the offensive war against Ukraine in my eyes are all bullshit.

    Russian state TV delivered reason for the so-called military "operation", pointing out how evil the Ukrainians are.

    An open source fact check however shows that these reasons were fabricated. There are plenty of articles online dealing with this topic (if you are actually interested). Russian TV faked a lot and they did not even fake in a professional way.

    One potential true reason for Russian intervention might be the security of Russian people. Afterall there is the seperatist movement in east Ukraine. But in my eyes... if security is the concern then you would try to end the fights instead of delivering weapons. A peaceful solution should have been top priority in the past 8 years. Russian and Ukraine failed to deliver here. I am not too much into this topic to make a true judgement about this but really would like to know what happens when Putin decides to "defend" the Russians living here in Germany (we have several millions living here).

    I think that this is all bullshit. If you would ask the civilians in these Ukrainian regions they probably wouldn't really care if they belong to Ukraine or Russia as long they can live in peace.


    Then we have NATO as reason for war. This is Putins most favorite explanation.

    NATO is bad... because... yeah because of what? What does Russia fear?

    NATO is a defense alliance. All NATO does is to guarantee support if a non-NATO country attacks a NATO member state. Other than that NATO does nothing. It is not designed to be an alliance to invade other countries. Its sole purpose is defense. So unless you decide to be the asshole that starts a devastating war against another country you don't need to worry about the NATO at all. Fun fact: if you are that asshole country you are the source of the evil aggression, not somebody else.

    Russia did not have to fear NATO at all... unless its intention was to attack other countries anyways. In that case the source of evil is to be found in Kremlin.


    And while talking about that. Russia has no right to tell Ukraine or any other sovereign country what to do and what not to do. The Ukraine has the right to make its own decisions and that includes the decision to join the EU and/or the NATO. This right is based on international law and on treaties that btw. were signed by Russia in the years after the collapse of soviet union.

    Furthermore Putin loves to make claims about agreements that NATO would not expand to the east that were done when east and west Germany were unified again. Interestingly the 2+4 Treaty Putin refers to does not contain such an agreement. A fact that btw. does not surprise me because that treaty was signed in 1990, which was one year prior the collapse of the Warsaw Pact. Nobody at that even knew that any of the other former soviet countries would gain their independence therefore nobody even bothered to put any agreement about NATO into that treaty.

    Putins claim therefore is wrong. No treaty was violated and NATO can expand IF the sovereignty of the new member states is not violated. International law on the other side allows countries to make own decisions and forbids any intervention from other countries.

    Russia's invasion/war is an illegal intervention.


    Every reason Putins regime gave for what they do is absolute bullshit.


    Nuclear thread from NATO?

    Hmmmk.

    It was not NATO which publicly tested their nuclear missiles one week prior invading Ukraine. It was not NATO which mobilized their nuclear arsenal (NATO has not even reacted on this change of the thread level). It also was not NATO which did threat the country that support the Ukraine with nuclear devastation.

    NATO for gods sake has stayed out of this escalation spiral. NATO is not under attack yet (which btw. proves my previous point that NATO is solely a defense alliance of member states).


    A few words about the war itself.

    And let's stick with right that... a WAR. Russian state media calls it an "operation" to liberate people in the Ukraine. Funny enough that the civilian people which stop the tanks (peacefully) do not want to be "liberated" it is a disgusting example how truth is being twisted to fit a narrative. If troops are being sent into another country to attack the military, the infrastructure and even the civilian population then this is an offensive WAR and as such it should be named.

    If the media can not even be honest about this little detail then how many other lies are being fed to the people day by day?

    Talking about liars.

    Back in 2008 Putin already lied when invading Georgia.

    In 2014 Putin lied when he said that no Russian soldiers are involved in the fights in east Ukraine. He also lied when he claimed he does not want to invade the Ukraine shortly before his troops took Crimea. He lied many times about the reason of the Russian involvement in the Syria conflict. He lied about his troops not attacking civilian targets back then even though video footage showed the opposite. Putin lied prior invading Ukraine about his intentions and he is lying to the world and his people every single day.

    I say it the way it is. Russia currently is controlled by liars, murderers and a terrorist regime. There are no doubts about it any longer.

    "Let us do what we want or we will bomb you with nuclear weapons" that is Putins threat towards all countries opposing his despicable actions.




    His method used is mirroring exactly what Nazi Germany did to start world war two. Spreading misinformation, inventing war reasons and then doing his version of a blitz krieg, which fortunately was poorly executed.

    The Russian solders are poorly informed what they are actually doing in Ukraine, the logistics suck and the resistance is much stronger than expected. Putins plan did not work and I hope that the entire invasion comes to a halt.

    Young men were sent into a war believing to free the people of a country and I really hope these soldiers will realize that they are in the invaders instead and that they will do the right thing, return to Russia, unharmed and without harming further Ukrainian people.

    Russia acknowledged the death of ~500 of its soldiers today. Ukrainian forces speak of at least 6000 dead Russian solders and many videos on the web show huge amounts of destroyed Russian vehicles and footage of shot down aircraft. I tend to believe that the true number of losses is somewhere between these unconfirmed numbers.



    I definitely do no believe in Putins propaganda when the modern world holds the tools to document the truth and share it with the entire world. I don't know how much the Russian people actually have access to such information. Certainly much is restricted and of course we are all human beings that way too often are too lazy to investigate and fact check. It is so much easier to turn on the TV and believe in what is presented to us.

    No Russian state media will show the footage of dead Russian solders, destroyed convoys or the bombing of residential areas of Ukrainian cities with internationally condemned weaponry. What you can see day by day are war crimes done by the so called peacekeeping "operation". So much peace that more people than ever before die.




    children.pngPutins intentions are exposed now. The whole world can see what a vile little man he is.

    His methods of terror can no longer be denied. He took the world hostage, threatened many of us with annihilation and has put the existence of mankind at risk.

    His minions exposed themselves by lying for him, hiding the truth about a regime that does not tolerate a different opinion.

    Thousands of Russians protesting for peace were arrested. How can a protest for peace be reason for police forces act in such a way? How can a country tolerate this any longer?

    This is not east vs west, NATO vs Soviets. This is Putins terror regime vs the rest of the world.

    (clarification on the linked picture: this is about a relative new article that showed up today which if true is totally disgusting BUT fact checking it today turned out to be difficult so take it with a grain of salt. Enlarge if you want to know more about it. If you have further info feel free to share.)


    Brutal mercenaries were sent into the war trying to eliminate the Ukrainian government.

    Civilian are getting killed by the so called "precision strikes" of the Russian forces. Dunno if cluster bombs in residential areas can be considered "precision strikes". Either you lack a huge amount of precision there or you are a fucking monster.

    Ransomware groups sided with Russia and that alone speaks volumes about what hideous forces join Putins side. These groups even attack hospitals and risk the lives of the people there just to press money.

    Then we have these threats to let the ISS crash onto Europe or North America. FFS, the ISS has been the symbol of peace and cooperation between the nations. To use this as a threat alone must come from a total mad man.

    The Russian demands for peace sound like enslaving 40 million people under Russian rulership. What a great deal.




    The United Nations today made a historic vote to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine. 141 nations took a clear position against Russia, 35 remained neutral and only 5 seem to side with Putins regime. Longstanding allies of Russia are no longer willing to support this kind of terror.

    Many countries all around the world have decided to establish sanctions against Russia. Most major companies have stopped their business with Russia. To a very large degree Russia has been cut off payment and trade systems. Embassies have been closed, people evacuated. Russian assets in most countries have been frozen and confiscated. Air space over many countries was restricted and sea passages closed for Russian traffic.

    Russia is to a large degree isolated.

    If that is good or bad depends on how far Putin is willing to go.

    Russia's economy might crumble under that pressure and the citizen will pay the price of one mans fatal mistake. Eventually it will get even worse for all of us if Putin sees no way out.



    The thing is, the world has seen his true face now and won't forget what happened.

    He might loose the war in Ukraine... he might even win it. No matter what that will not change how the world sees Russia now. The sanctions and the isolation will remain until Putin is gone and a better government has been established.

    This is Putins endgame... and we are waiting for the snap.




    While the end credits are running you are of course free to ignore my spelling mistakes. I am not in the mood to proof-read.

    And yes, I have to admit. I could not get it done without emotions involved. I also have to admit that I am biased. Not because I live in a western country but because my moral compass tells me that everything with this situation is just wrong.

    I had to make this statement now because I think it really had to be said. These are my personal views on this fucked up situation and now that this is done I partly feel a relief.

    This however does not change my opinion on the great people of this community. I made friends here and that won't change. Like I initially said, I don't judge people by their country of origin, their skin color or religion. All that does not matter as long we treat one other respectfully and have joy for what we do together.

    Last but not least I intend this to be my only statement about this topic. I will respect other opinions on this matter but will not debate about anything since I think that this could lead down a path I don't wish to go.

    This thread remains open until somebody decides to break the terms of use of this website. If you have something to add, stay polite (probably more than I was).


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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
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  • I,m sure, there is millions of people with feelings on this topic. But the one fact that causes me anger, is wars are against an enemy. They are killing women and children. But more important, there killing there own people Russians. Is that not war but murder !!!!. Russian country men shooting there brothers and sisters.

  • Hey guys and especially OP,

    since this war started I Just cant get any comfort... Thinking about how absolutely senseless this war and Putin's actions are... How stupid it is to start a war in between of Brothers and of course my selfish thoughts About having a war, where I could drive by car at ~15h... It is Just sth Else...

    I definetly share your opinion completely and couldn't write it down better than you. The only thing we can do right now is to help our ukrainian refugees as much as we can and try to help donate to the ukrainian army, red cross whatsoever...


    I Just hope that our russian friends will recognize, that putin is nothing Else than an evil aggressor and try to stop listening to his orders. At The end the regular population is bigger and stronger than those inbred oligarchs.


    BTW thanks to be Part and a new member of your community, I Just recently found your Beautiful mod and now i get the oldschool feeling of good Old gaming Times. Cya soon!

  • I'll give my point of view in a nutshell! in contrast to the OP who wrote complete nonsense. YOU can ban me and so on, but this will not change the essence!


    I am against the War and time will put everything in its place! OP, you do not have the correct information on the 2008 conflict! All your arguments are complete nonsense of YOUR WESTERN PROPOGAND!!! (I personally was in Abkhazia and talked with Ositins and Abkhazians !!! there are also citizens of Georgia who are Adequate.)


    Regarding MAIDAN in 14, YOU also have the wrong idea !!! ODESSA MAY 2-- ODISITES DIE (officially 57 / not officially up to 100 people - all local!) WHERE IS YOUR WESTERN MEDIA ?? or current Concern!!!

    DOMBASS Shelling of villages and urban-type settlements! BUT the OSCE says that they are shelling themselves or the Russians!!! (DO NOT forget that all Ukrainians have relatives throughout the country, both in western and eastern Ukraine.)

    NATO Defense Alliance???? don't make my socks ))))


    And before touching on this topic, you must first find out from those people who endured it all on themselves !!! or have the truth!


    P/S OP, where are your concerns about Iraq, Libya, SYRIA, or are these people and countries 3rd grade ?? Yugoslavia at last!!!

    Edited once, last by Alli ().

  • At this point I need to clearly point out that my critics on Russia do not mean that I am ok with all the actions and policies of western countries (especially the USA). I think that seperate topics need to be viewed and discusses seperately, therefore let's just stick with the recent events.


    I will respect other opinions on this matter but will not debate about anything since I think that this could lead down a path I don't wish to go.

    This thread remains open until somebody decides to break the terms of use of this website. If you have something to add, stay polite (probably more than I was).

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

    At this point I need to clearly point out that my critics on Russia do not mean that I am ok with all the actions and policies of western countries (especially the USA). I think that seperate topics need to be viewed and discusses seperately, therefore let's just stick with the recent events.

    This paragraph should be at the end of your message of information on this topic that is affected!

  • I am not responsible for short time memory.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Difficult topic in a multinational gaming community...


    I don't like war - no matter where, no matter which parties are involved. Not between countries, not between religions, not between ordinary people. In this particular matter, I think both sides (West and East) can speak their minds, and for me, it is absolutely clear that both sides get their information about each other. We are influenced by the media we consume, while the others are influenced by their own media. I call that propaganda. Which is not propaganda: There is a war in Ukraine. It's not a special mission. I don't need to name any particular case from near or distant history. I make all nations involved guilty of all current and past wars.


    In terms of a sovereign country. Ukraine's problems must be solved first and foremost by its own people. They must be solved by the local authorities. It is not a matter of Russia or the EU or any other country. The other nations could simply call all parties to the diplomatic table. Offer support to build legal authorities that can govern their people. This is possible without anger and war.


    All the war crimes of the past should not have happened - it should all have been resolved with UN forces - "justified" by the UN General Assembly - and most importantly with a simple or two-thirds majority vote of the UN Security Council. Which brings me to the next block of questions - what to do with oppressed or killed peoples - if there was no UNGA or UNSC interaction plan? The minority must be protected and saved. Divide states - or something like that? I don't know. But for this, ideas, plans and rules would have to be generated in these institutions, which then just have to be ratified by the majority of the states. All this should have happened long ago!


    What bothers me more. Why is the conflict between Russia and Ukraine not brought before the UN? Why is this institution so weak? Why are military conflicts not resolved with UN blue helmet troops? That would be a globally militarily enforced solution - ordered by a confederation of states, not controlled by one state alone. It seems to me that Russia does not accept that Ukrainians vote on their government. Do we think they will interfere in a public and free election? Somehow I have a feeling that they will. Why? Well, we've already seen that in Crimea.


    Unfortunately, Putin himself has stated that the split of the USSR was a big mistake, and he wants the former Russian Empire back. And somehow, he could enforce this with the help of nuclear weapons if another state interferes with his actions. As much as I thought Mr. Putin was a smart man, his latest statements suggest to me that he is angry about his life, his work - and wants to distract from domestic issues. Sad. Very sad - unfortunate for the whole world.


    I just hope killing stops soon and diplomatic and politic actions can take place.


    * I would also like to add that when I talk about Russia, I mean only its government and the people currently acting who are responsible for it. I don't blame the Russian people, where most of them are really nice (there are assholes in every nation though :)))

    signature.png

    Edited 2 times, last by Huor ().

  • *sigh*

    I did not want to comment but... your point about the UN would be nice if the UN had no veto rights for its permanent members.

    When ever the UN made good and necessary decisions the countries involved made use of their veto right to block any progress.

    Russia/UDSSR alone used its veto right 120 times to block UNs ability to act. The US also used this veto right when it suited their agenda eventhough they did not use it anywhere close as much as Russia. Last time Russia used its veto right to cover up the actually well documented war crimes in Syria.


    Splitting east Ukraine from the other regions indeed was an option... until Putin decided to occupy Crimea. With that day this option was not possible anymore.

    These regions require international recognition to become own states and that won't happen as long there still is war or any form of occupation (which also means that Putins claims and his own recognition have absolutely no value).

    Next to that do I really believe that Putin wants control over these regions. Any UN involvement would be against his interests.

    Internationally these regions can not make any contracts with other countries, they have no international rights. That is also why Putin has invaded the entire Ukraine. He wants to force the government to recognize these regions as "independent" states. This are his demands (amongst many others).

    If his intention was to help his Russian people in these regions he could have occupied them and then stopped. He is bombing cities far away from any of his people.

    His fairy tale of a peace making operation can not believed by anyone unless peace means to kill 40 million innocent people.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
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  • Quote

    The attack on #Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is a violation of a UN resolution passed in 1990 on Prohibition of Attacks on Nuclear Facilities. Part of it specifies that the Security Council "would have to act immediately".

    There you can see how much the russian govern cares about international treaties, international law, the UN and the lives of millions of people that were put at risk.

    The best comment I've read to day (and totally agree with) is that Putin is an enemy of humankind.



    So what is Putins justification now? That the evil Ukrainians quickly raised/build a nuclear power plant where his peace troops commenced some harmless tank shooting practices?

    What did I read today? 15 years of jail for making "wrong" claims about the situation in Ukraine? In that case Putin and his pawns need to be locked away for the next few thousand years.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • The veto regulation is complete nonsense if one of the veto nations is involved or even worst - an actor. In this case, I would cancel that this nation has veto and 2/3rd of the remaining constant nations must agree on an action plan. And still, then this must not mean to start war with each other, but to put the blue helmet forces into action.


    In the current and past situations we don't need this veto nations as mainly in all global conflicts either one or more nations have an interest in these conflicts and act as stakeholder. The whole world and UN is blocked. No one can do anything, except that aggressors are free in their deeds.


    What I also don't quite understand are the mutual accusations from both sides.

    One side must have started the escalation. Was it Ukraine with the separatist regions, or was it the other way around? Why is there no clear evidence?


    Assuming that the separatists started all this nonsense, isn't it Ukraine's right in the first place to formulate its laws in this way and to pursue violations of the law? Couldn't they have negotiated peacefully to transfer the territories to Russia? Because the acceptance that they should be independent regions will probably not work very well. On the other hand, I cannot imagine that a sovereign state would accept that a region simply secede. Only in case of need - if life (like now) is at stake, I could imagine it - for the sake of peace. Then both countries could have traded with each other or not, but the peoples could live in peace and quiet.


    But my guess is that the Russian leadership alone is not even concerned about that. Could it be about Ukraine's Western orientation after all? Is Russia alone allowed to decide about the orientation of its neighboring countries? --> Then they would have to fight with the USA or with Mongolia, Kazakhstan. I would exclude China :)

    Or is it about fears that NATO comes too close. But there Russia is also in the far east, only much more directly threatened by the United States.


    The most stupid thing is that it is not possible to agree on it contractually.

    signature.png

  • Every sovereign state has the right to make its own decisions. That includes to let the people vote who is leading it and also with which other countries to cooperate.

    It is not Russia's right to tell the Ukraine what to do and what to think.

    There is international law/treaties granting the Ukraine full sovereignty and there are also treaties with Russia doing the same. Putin apparently gives a fuck about that.


    He is like a child bullying other children. "be my friend or I will punch you"

    Imagine this picture and you will realize that this is exactly what we are facing today in RL.


    "stop reporting about the war or you face 15 years prison"

    "stop protesting for peace or my security forces will drag you away"

    "stop helping the Ukraine or I will nuke you"


    If Putin has sent a peace force to Ukraine where is the humanitarian aid for the people there? There is none. There is only death and destruction done by his forces.

    All the western countries have united to provide help to the people. Never before has the western world worked that close together trying to help the people of Ukraine.

    And if Putins goal was to prevent that the western world gets stronger then he already failed miserably. The countries are more united than ever before.

    Countries want to join the EU and the NATO now (which before never was an option to them) just because they fear to be the next being attacked by Russia.

    Several of Russia's long term allies have decided not to condone what Putin has initiated.


    I grew up in a former soviet state and I do not have negative memories about that time.

    My grandmother lived in Ukraine (close to Odessa) when she was young and she experienced WW2 later on. She is 94 now and lives in fear of another war that currently rages ~1800km away but could easily spread throughout whole Europe. Eventhough my parents try to hide it I see that they fear the same while still being far away from war.

    My feelings are different. Disappointment and anger.

    For more than 30 years I thought we could leave behind this bullshit east vs west thinking. Leave behind the conflicts and instead work towards a better future for all of us.

    Even my work on Crossfire was driven by this wishful thinking. Uniting Alliance and Coalition again to get over the mistakes of the past and join forced for a common goal. I have not portrayed the Russian aspect as evil but instead tried to respect it the way it was. I have decided not to continue the story after the sacrifice mission because it was perfect the way it was. Humanity united.

    Everyday since the start of this war I think that I must have been way too naive to believe that mankind has a true chance to get out of this spiral of violence.

    I am glad that the western world has remained calm. That NATO has not reacted in any way on the increase nuclear threat. That NATO and EU have not sent troops.

    But when watching the pain and suffering of the people in Ukraine, deep inside of me there is this wish that these Troops were sent in order to help the people there.

    I know that this is wrong... but I also know that what currently happens is wrong.

    Quote


    All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

    I am torn.

    And this does not even get anywhere close to what the people in the war region must feel.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
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    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I am agreeing with all that! Nevertheless we must ask why there is no further progress with the UN over years. These institutions were build to protect menkind from each other - after the evil wars we have begun in the beginning of the 20th century. It is their damn duty to bring order into this!


    I don't question which side is guilty of the current situation. All have their guilt to bear one more another one less. This damn war has to stop - that's what I want leaders to do. Nations don't need leaders to start war or any other aggressions. Starting war is a sign of weakness and not power.


    I don't feel anger or fear another world war to begin yet. I am sad that innocents are killed - but that truly is the dark side of war.

    signature.png

  • It is not so easy to change the UN.

    Getting rid of the veto right means that the members have to agree to such change. I really have my doubts that countries like Russia (which benefited from the veto) will ever agree to that.

    Even if all other countries agree with such a change, the veto itself will prevent such changes.

    The only way to get it done is to dismantle the UN entirely and then create a new one. But even that requires an agreement about it, is risky because every country has to do the individual decision in its parliaments to join the new organization and in the meantime we simply do not have an UN anymore.

    It is also a logistical nightmare and security risk.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Personally I think that if situation in Europe will continue only wrong way, it will be good. There clearly cannot be expected any good outcomes. Russian government repeatebly lied, lies and is obvious that they will continue doing so without any limits. I also think that there is only one thing which is Putin able respect and this is show of strength and existence of strong will to use this strength. At this moment I'm really not sure whether to think that he is either totally insane or if he is right now succesfully achieving what he planned. And I'm not talking about Ukraine, where his plans may go completelly different way as he expected. I'm talking about total blockade of his country from any western influence and removing all starting grounds for creation of any local meaningfull oposition which may build a threat to him. Yes, they will have now many troubles, but Russia is huge country with all resourcess, they can be fully self-sufficient after some time. Imo doesn't matter how back they will be behind other world if they will have operational nuclear weapons. Europe will need build a very strong "maul" and be ready to use it anytime if we will want live peacefully in any foreseeable future.

  • Then we have NATO as reason for war. This is Putins most favorite explanation.

    NATO is bad... because... yeah because of what? What does Russia fear?

    NATO is a defense alliance. All NATO does is to guarantee support if a non-NATO country attacks a NATO member state. Other than that NATO does nothing. It is not designed to be an alliance to invade other countries. Its sole purpose is defense. So unless you decide to be the asshole that starts a devastating war against another country you don't need to worry about the NATO at all. Fun fact: if you are that asshole country you are the source of the evil aggression, not somebody else.


    I agree with you in most things you said but i need to correct you there i felt NATO peace keepin bombs on my skin all NATO countries send airplanes to drop bombs on inocent civilians. You telling us that NATO is a defensive force but who they defend from small country are we atack someone? It seams noone remember that bloody times or just dont wanna remember. And now we judge Russian for whatever reasons they have to atack and noone judge NATO and USA for what they did to my country.

  • Firstly I clearly wrote that this is about what happens now. I have openly criticized past wars the same way I do with the conflict today.

    I make no differences there.


    And still I stick to my statement I made about NATO.

    Only once in history the NATO countries as a whole decided to attack another country and to my understand (still today) they did this exclusively for humanitarian reasons.

    Civilian casualties nonetheless are inexcusable.

    But I need to point out that NATO did not force its member states to join a war. Not by contract... not by force.

    Every member state did the decision independently backed up by the national parliaments. This very often is overlooked when people talk about this issue.

    I am convinced that these countries would have made similar if not the same decisions if NATO as organization had not existed.

    I have customers which only survived because of what NATO did back then. Who am I to judge about it. Maybe it was a correct decision based humanitarian aspects and a legally and politically wrong decision.


    But we live today the aggression is done by somebody else with full brutality and no mercy for civilian lives.

    The NATO countries seem to stay out of the conflict since it is not an attack on NATO yet.

    I stick to my statement about NATO being just a defense pack and believe way too many people mistake it for something else. NATO member states still can make individual decisions that are good or bad... that is the unfortunate truth. It is a complicated system of acting united in defense but also allowing member states to make individual decisions.

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  • The future, which is now, or which will be, will only allow us to act if our actions lead to the THAT future that has already happened.It is serious and inhuman what is happening, but it happens as in the whole history of humanity.Humanity is far too insignificant as it is, it cannot and cannot change the future. It already exists and does not allow the present to change the laws of entropy.Why do I think and realize and say that? Because we have to overcome our human condition. not now. if we can, maybe in about 300 years we can do that.Each of us and anyone can just waste a lot of spit but we only give our opinion, and only instinctively believe what is good and what is bad.

    No matter what you/we say, my opinion about the current situation, not necessarily in Eastern Europe, probably in many hot spots on our small planet, i am really afraid to think about the future.The future is not Of Homo erectus:)). At the risk of being classified as an Alien ... (btw .. this char has been fighting in his Donetsk area for 8 years and I hope he is alive).What's going on there is somehow reminiscents of ww2,just read and taste eastern european history.

  • What Putin really wants in my view having lived through some of the cold war During the cold war Ukraine was a nuclear power holding apr 1/3 of Russia's nuke arsenal a lot of those nukes were dismantled through an agreement with the west and the then Ussr after Ukraine claimed independence but there's still loads left there if Putin wins Ukraine that puts even more of the west under threat of nukes there's another smaller country connected to Ukraine that Putin will take to so he can complete his old Ussr empire back to what it was and again be in a position to take the west if he so chooses. The end cause NATO gets involved then