Roleplay

WHICH CHANGES?

You blame me for being stubborn, you blame me for not listening but you are not even able to tell me what you want.

This is meanwhile the 4th time I am asking you.

You mean that cancerous RP that people constantly complain about?

Lets ask the other players here.

Do you want the discovery roleplay on CF?

(I btw. would want to point out that the RP rules we have would fully support exactly the RP done on discovery. There is no limitation in the rules that would prevent a Discovery style RP on CF. I just state the facts.)

Simply said Disco has faction based RP combined with the classic roles (pirates, cops etc).

The faction has control over a specific territory and can enforce its rules there.

Players always have to play their role, no matter what. Ppl have to chose a faction until they reach a certain lvl. Once chosen ppl have to keep a reputation similar to the faction. e.g. ppl with corsair base faction always have to be hostile to all police factions.

This is of course an oversimplified summary but it shows why it in my eyes never will work on CF.

This kind of RP requires to have a big server population by default. We don't have that and when we are about to talk about facts... Discovery is losing ~15-20% players each year (just like every other server out there) so it is just a matter of time until their RP will stop working.

2nd reason why I think that it will not work is the fact that people have to stick to their role. That is something I tell CF players to do for years meanwhile but it is what nobody wants to do. It fails already when people are asked to do RP and but refuse to leave Arena for that (Im just saying).

Arena btw. is not a PVP system... it is an Event system so unless you are hosting a server event you are not supposed to be in there at all.

Any PVP could happen as part of our RP... which actually is not much different from Discovery if people actually would play it the way it was meant to be (which apparently they dont do).

So tell me what am I supposed to do?

Copy/Paste the Discovery rules (which btw. are not much different from ours except for the faction part)?

Take every player by the hand and force every pirate to say "arrr" 24/7?

At this point I also would like to mention that the faction RP easily could have been covered on CF if clans ever had the ambition to do that. There is absolutely nothing in the rules that would have prevented that. Nothing that is possible on Discover is prevented by the CF rules.

You can go right to the server now and show us how Discovery style RP should work.

Best we test it under hardcore conditions of using the Coalition... you will have to match your reputation... which means that all other factions are hostile to you. I guess entering Sirius might turn out to be a true challenge. ( I am pointing this out because there are structural differences between CF and Discovery which would make a copy/paste of the rulesets very impractical; this are differences which can not simply be changed without completely destroying huge parts of CF)

Quote from Michael Webber

Of course, since mods and admins kick them for stupid reasons...

Putting aside that I have not kicked anyone for ~10 years I doubt that following rules is a stupid reason especially with the background of getting people to stop avoiding RP.... based on this discussion seems to be the goal?

Or do I misunderstand something?

I think based on what you said not doing RP on CF is bad.... but telling somebody not to avoid RP is also bad?

Based on that it does not seem to matter what we do. It is wrong if there is no RP but if we tell ppl to do RP it is also wrong.

Quote from Michael Webber

In every possible game i know, arena IS PVP zone, if there were PvE elements, yeah.

And who cares about what you know from other games? Crossfire is not like other games, we never wanted to be like other games. I created stuff that was different from what people knew and that made Crossfire good. Arena always was designed and meant to be an event system. That is how this system is classified and described. Since the very early days people did PVP in X-3043. The rules always stated that Arena, Coloseum and Hive are event systems and are not meant to hide from RP. Something which btw. should be a good rule if you want RP to be done. Debating against that is paradox. The only reason for these systems to be excluded from RP was to allow Event managers do their job.... not PVP, not anything else.

The people which created the rules were no idiots, they created rules where rules were needed in order to protect different aspects of the server gameplay.

Quote from Michael Webber

Why are the other people playing different games and are not in your server? Have you ever thought of that?

Maybe because FL is a 18 years old game and right now there are more scifi space shooter games than ever before?

That is why hundreds of FL servers (based on pretty good mods) were closed. It speaks more of a success than a failure to still be there after 18 years.

Quote from Huor

What are these "smallest things"? I supposed it code wise and hook wise not word/rule-wise?

You know... that are such tiny things which eventually take weeks and months of development (they have not the slightest idea how much work it sometimes takes).

I was thinking about technical aspects of getting Discovery RP to CF when driving home from office.

We would have to have a ruleset about rep fixes on the server software based on ids/licenses which generally would be possible. We have such a feature but never used it because back when CF2.0 was released players explicitly did not want this to happen.

Structural differences could be a problem. We have 19 factions, 15 of them have isolated reputation settings which prevent any RP based on them. 71% of the new systems are based on these factions. Two possible solutions: get rid of all that content (including singleplayer) or create a rule which excludes these systems from a Discovery style RP (which probably would be exactly the same situation we currently have with Arena).

To be honest i did not think beyond this point since both solutions are a bummer.

Quote from Huor

Also only allow to tax/fine/bounty other license holders isnt a big issue. That can be adjusted with the hooking/implementation. I'll have a bit time this weekend and could adjust this probably...

while it is no problem technically, it certainly will be used to avoid RP.... which actually is not what we want.