My opinion on the "RP"

Hi.

Since I'm a new player aswell, I agree what XAttus wrote about. THe rulles are being abused a lot, and theat has to end or the game will just lose more players ( there are not many anyway ).

So yeah, if you guys ( developers and staff ) want to keep this game going on, with players that is, you need to make rules about RP ( so, how to not to exploit RP ).
Becouse of it newer players cant even get to higher ranks, and that means, they get bored, annoyed, angry, lose the will to play, and that means they QUIT !!

So, if you put all of this together : you wont sustain popularity on the game server !

Think about it

Will reply only on some parts, sorry no time now for more detailed thing:

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The current roleplay rules strongly benefit the older veteran players who have nothing else to do anymore, and severely hurt the newer players who - most of the time - discover the RP the hard way; getting into a really unpleasant situation without expecting it (tax/fine, getting caught with BMGs).

Older players will have ALWAYS advantage, this fact simply is not possible to change. On other side, new player need to dealt only with one CF RP and this are pirates. Player below lvl 60 can be taxed MAX 1M and even if he meet 10 pirates in one hour and pay fine to all of them, he have very wide spectrum of possibilities how to acquire ways more moneys as these 10M in 2 free hours which are given to him. I do not count here smuggling, because this need experience and for sure is not for new player which want keep his head not too much high. IF player go to risk and smuggle, then he need expect that on well known MAIN routes will need count with troubles if is police online ... but this is HIS decision and HIS bad luck if get caught. Nothing force new player for smuggle top BMGs.

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One other big problem is that even though pvp is directly permitted between pirate and police players, based on my observations both of them go for the more vulnerable target (and easier way to RP) - taxing freelancers / traders or stopping smugglers from making money.

Players now actually can be happy that 9/10 pirates spent 99% of theirs time in X and linked system and do mainly PvP. Only very few players really do something else like is hunting other players. To be able successfully catch experienced "target" is usually need no less as one hour. Compare now fine or tax payment with income which can trader do with legal cargo or when player hunt NPCs on some well known systems in one hour (it is not comparable ...) . In other words, fine or tax is something like win price or bonus for hunting player. I know there are some players using some tactics which is lets to say rough, but hey .. tried you at least once communicate with such player or ask GR for help or post ticket and ask for help? It is not 100% solution but it is possible way which can be used.

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But but but, hire escort, set bounties, call the police (lol), avoid the dangerous guys - that's what I keep hearing but this actually doesn't work.

Sorry but I see it as funny. Why? .. because I have alot experience with police RP and I practically do not remember when someone called me for help due problem with pirate(s). In other words: players do not used many of options give to them because are sure they do not work, but how can they be sure if they do not try? Is correct to think that things not works bcs once or twice failed?

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This roleplay system tries to help on this situation by providing the players reasons and opportunities for interaction and pvp. But in my opinion it's very exploitable, requires a lot of rules that are hard to enforce and it is far from being what the creators imagined it to be.

Huh! ... I was always sure that CF rules are very short and very easy to understand. I rly want to know what is hard to enforce and require a lot of rule. Are you sure we talk about the same thing? (I suggest look only very shortly on rules which are used on other servers ... you can need some time for that)

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Since I'm a new player aswell, I agree what XAttus wrote about. THe rulles are being abused a lot, and theat has to end or the game will just lose more players ( there are not many anyway ).

I then little wonder why no one (almost) use ticket-system for resolve such problems. You guys do not use what is given to you, and this results in your bad experience. And please do not start with reasons why not use ticked, I know them all, and all are wrong (are wrong for many and many reasons).

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Because of it newer players cant even get to higher ranks, and that means, they get bored, annoyed, angry, lose the will to play, and that means they QUIT !!

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... I play bcs I like possibilities which CF offer and I never care about my player lvl. Maybe you can explain to me, what is on player level so important, sorry but I see player lvl as rly last thing which I care about. It do not give any important info about player, it only tells that he have more moneys on his char and this is all.

that lets me conclude i add a player time comparison to protect newbie players, probable time on the player account instead of one char - dunno yet either char related or account related. If i am not mistaken this should be finished within this week. But available first with cf 2.0.

As for the other aspects. Life isnt really easy for newbies - it has never been. Based on your rank pirates may tax you and the values for that are written in the rules. If the tax exceeds the limit that you might get, then notify a GR or come here and open a ticket - with screen shot as prove. Normally i would say, paying a pirate is mostly cheaper then avoiding to pay. That could include that you say - you might give the pirate a bonus once you reach your main target. So you easily can get an backup. Next time you are on that route, order escorts in advance. Either by police or mercenaries. Actually there are a lot of possibilities and ways how to interact. Switching chars to jump to follow a target is unfair. *I remember that i once had a full clan after me doing this and they never got me anyway --> that was fun - but i had the experience on my side ;)* Generally if you witness someone doing this - notify a GR or come here and post a ticket.

CF 2.0 has some improvements and clan advancements so players can remain busy playing without feeling bored all the time or do only pvps. That you are banned seems to be a pitty, seeing you made the effort to write these "wall" of text. If you feel it was not justified, write OP a PM. He's the next in the chain of commands.

Then i will say, we can improve as much as we want and unfortunate we dont have the source code of the game, so we cannot achieve all what would improve the server and clans interaction. We require that the server population tries its best to maintain fairness and play with each other within the rules given for them. And as long you feel that this is not possible, we would get informed about the concerns and problems. But we dont want to have them on the public all the time. Hence we created the ticket system that has to be used for this.

again a RP discussion
I hate that. I really do because every RP discussion here has only lead to massive troubles in the community.

Well... this is a roleplay server... everyone who joins it can read it in the name and should know what to expect.

Roleplay is about winning and loosing and of course more than just flying around and interacting with NPCs.
One day you win in a roleplay environment and one day you loose.
The roleplay rules are result of many years of roleplay on this server. They are fair and allow players to do roleplay while nobody is getting bankrupt because of it.
Thats what protections like the lvl 40 rule are for.
To think that protection for new players could look like checking if a player has several chars is a bit... well... irrealistic.
Putting aside that there is absolutely no way for a player to check if an opponent has more than one char and with what level and ship and equipment etc.... a check which then has to be done EVERYTIME....
putting aside that this is absolutely impossible to do ... it would also delay every RP and make RP totally impossible this way.
Next to that do we have very experienced players on the server which own just one single char.... are they noobs now?
Your imagination of this topic is so vague and far away from whats possible that i dont even want to think about its potential to be abused by the players which simply would create an account with just one char.
The lvl40 protection is at least an measurable way to protect new players.
To use the played time on an account is also not a better solution considering the use of multi-accounts these days. No... its not better than a lvl based protection.

RP is what ppl make out of it.
To F1 out of a RP situation is damaging the RP more than anything else.
And if a lvl60 player is being taxed by 1mio is absolutely not important because he easily could earn 30mio in the next 2 hours where he is protected by the rules.

I say it like it is... I am not even thinking about changing any RP rules. (especially not if it sounds like a new 50 pages rulebook that tries to regulate everything and tries to cover every eventuality until the players dont understand all that.)
With CF 2.0 the new automated roleplay system will be introduced and it wont really make a difference between the players.
Next to the low lvl player protection you cant avoid roleplay. You can pay... you can fight... or you can try to run.
Every player plays by the same rules but which target they choose is their decision.

Look, Real Life has a 2500 pages "rules" book, yet, a lot of people still abuse them, "avoid" directly breaking them or cheat around them.

Better rules can only help those with no common sense, to force them do something they don't want to. But if a player has common sense, he gets the point of the actual rules. If it says "the user cannot finte/tax the same target in 2 hours" doesn't mean you can switch IDs and do a 2nd fine in no-time, means that the "user" as the human guy behind the screen doesn't repeat that fine/tax in 2 hours. It's common sense, and server police will enforce such details on those who fail to respect them.

We could either have a 10 pages rules list that nobody really reads, (then come with "I didn't know !" excuses) and STILL doesn't stop abuses and exploits (even if the rules were perfectly detailed in 100 pages, ppl will still break them on purpose), or players could start cooperating with the devs/server police to stop any abuse they see while themselves avoid abusing back. Is that you need an in-game popup each 5 minutes to ask if you have something to report ? lol This isn't idealistic, expecting at least 10% of the players to do a report when they see something wrong is more logical than expecting 100% of the players/humans not to break any rule in any way.

Quote from xattus

I want to
point out is that the current RP system is not balanced
and really easily upsets people,
both those who get involved in it against their will
(and consequently leave) and also those who commit
and don't get the result they want.

How exactly is not balanced? (using argument veteran vs newbie is imo not valid point because it is natural and explained also above)

Which way can easily upset ppl? (I mean ways which are correct with server rules)

Why are ppl involved against theirs will if they know (they should) that joined roleplay server? Every server player is involved into server RP in the first moment when he log into his char in MP.

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both those who get involved in it against their will

but i assume that people can read
"24/7 SWAT Crossfire Roleplay"

If people would have wanted to prevent roleplay at all costs they could have decided not to join the server.
Roleplay can only work if roleplay is done by all players without much exception.
There is no "What? Tax?... no no no... I dont feel like being taxed today... go any do roleplay with somebody else".
People which act in such a way only disrupt and disturb the roleplay which in the end is absolutely demotivating for everybody who really want to RP.
"If other players can avoid roleplay then why in gods name should i fly all the way to them.... no I better dont do roleplay at all."
-> this is a chain reaction which damages RP and even lets it collapse until the point that players dont know what to do and leave the server because they are bored.

This so called bullying in my yes... is nothing but normal roleplay where you loose one day... and win the other day.
And if players harass others by only targeting certain individuals with the pure wish to destroy their online experience then the serverrules about harassment apply and we will force them to stop. But thats an individual regulation which we will have to investigate and enforce if true.

LOL

Too much words but straight and to the point.
My opinion..xattus...JUST PLAY..i was in same situation long time..ago
You are alive i suppose , just play day by day or..otherwise you can write a book filled with petitions all this time
You choose!!!

Xattus and not only ... I will tell my opinion about this so called problem ''pirates'' when u meet a pirate for instance me a very big factor is how u treat him imo talk with him and try to deal with him and not ignore him especial if u new and pvp skills don't exits I ofen when tax players I get ignore , f1 ,reloading, flaming, or i 'm bad insult so at my quote ''pay or die'' I get as answer ''fuck you'' ofc then u will die fast cuz no matter how new u are young or old using that kind of langue is well known against the rules and u can't use the excuse ''i new I didn't know'' other than this every single time u get tax by a pirate and lets say u are alone (no mercs , cops or friends) u have 3 options :
1. Pay the tax ( u can try deal for a small amount)
2.try run( it works sometimes )
3. refuse pay and try kill the bad pirate

In the end it is ur call how u act and I know not all pirates act perfectly they break rules sometimes as majority of players so no need point only against them , as a result of this so called ''pirates problem'' i promise i stop taxing players till 2.0 is out so take care and fly safe .

If a offended anyone some how with my post iam sorry but my lack of english don't allow me to be to diplomatic .

PS: for those who say CF lose players lately , according to this site CF gain a lot of activity in the last 2-3 months second place on this list http://www.flserver.de/topservers.php?timeframe=year

well,yes the average number of players stable ... even rising atm while other server lose players

1. NO GOOD WAY OUT

I understand your point about bullying – can definitely feel
like that and I believe it does exist a lot in the online gaming community.
Your options really are to accept you are indeed online – and that comes with
the good and bad. To Pirate demands – pay up or die. To Fat cops – drop your
cargo, pay up and probably die as well. Learn from your experience – note the
clans etc.

Pirates normally have an “X” in their name somewhere – cop clans
– their ships usually have a larger cockpit space so they can get their fat
behinds into the captain’s chair – smell of jam and coffee.

If you run – do not switch – your opponents should not be
doing that – if you escape and they end up docking and loading up another
character – it is they who are breaking the rules.

It is no bad thing to pay a fine or a tax – respect others
role play choices.

2. OPTIONS Hire, bounty etc

I agree with you here – normally does not work – until you
build up relationships and trust with a bunch of pilots and clans. Most people
won’t drop what they are doing to help you – unless there is something in it
for them. Promise them lots of fun – maybe some cash?

Note – there are other things to do online apart from making
lots of cash – baddies – whatever their smell – can be avoided – but yes,
switching and jumping around with multiple chars is not right.

3. Switching/ enforcing roleplay on the weak

Yes – true – but normal behaviour for any society. When the
top guns/clans fight each other it can turn out very bad for everyone.

Rules are normally enforced unfairly on the weak by the
strong – that is normal as well in most societies.

In summary it is up to the senior players to strike the right balance and tone on the server - does not always work.

Remember - you have other options - and paying a tax - or - cough - a bribe - is also an option.

If someone is switching around and making your experience online very bad - make a complaint to SP.

If you avoid them in space by using your superior piloting skills and knowledge - they should not be switching around to catch you - that is also roleplaying.

I am sorely tempted to comment, but those that have replied will know my views, so, for now I will desist.

nice post though, imo intelligently put.

regards

Ray OK

It's very well put indeed

Just a few quick observations from the top of the thread:

1. When I first joined the community, and got the feel for the CF universe, I realized that traders & smugglers are naturally at the bottom of the food chain. I didn't particularly like my vulnerability in that sense, so I started my own clan, to build a haven for the smuggler RP, and bring some balance to the economy.

2. I have found that the majority of new players (with notable exceptions) tend to keep to themselves, even if experienced players attempt to engage them in character-building activities like contract jobs. If you are a new player, and a more experienced player or clan member offers you a job for profit, at least acknowledge the communication!

3. On the flip side of that, clan members could be more proactive in reaching out to the newer players to help them get acclimated to the challenge of the CF universe. Events are not going to meet that need, only cooperative effort will actually provide enough time for the new player to "get" some of the nuances of Freelancer success.

CF is definitely worth the time required to learn the social environment, and whatever role you choose, it is as challenging as any in the Freelancer community...

Centaurian

very good points all. I have found that Forlon is very good at engaging new players. just lately there is a new guy doing something similar, International whatever.

as Centaurian has said if more of the veterans engaged the newer players, the incidence of bullying, whatever your personal stance on the subject, would probably decrease.

another intelligent reply, thank you Centaurian.

regards

Ray OK