Dramatic Graphic Improvements for Freelancer!

Beauty

if they get it working
the last demo was bugged

... nice demo. Future will show how it can work in real.

yeah

Quote from Martind Forlon

... nice demo. Future will show how it can work in real.

Well for all CF players this will not be the future as they are not allowed to use this stuff. (Im just saying)

The Shadow isn't really needed (as we mainly use fighters here), the reflection on the cockpit... I prefer seeing the guy inside

But the distorsion map is interesting... makes explosions more realistic, and that's all about games which include fight/war, the explosions.

I feel it looks nice. What i am wondering a bit is how this is going to interfere in the game performance. Dunno as far as i understood all the graphic stuff is done in post processing. So if shadows, distortion and reflections needs to be calculated then it might cause graphic lag. But then again probably i am wrong - didnt had the time nor the mood to download and play their demo yet. Haven't you Michael?

Nope, I've only been in their older version, when their server was active. As member of the rebel forces, with the small A fighter (I think), and had the chance to duel Sushi himself (a rare thing even by then). Later I got permission for capital ships with some inter clan relation, but still liked my small agile fighter.

But anyway, the demo didn't had that working (correctly), by what OP said.

The demos (even the latest one) were not that stable and you clearly noticed the impact on the performance in various situations.
Ive once done tests with vanilla FL and this plugin and the resutls were a catastrophy with countless of serious bugs and heavy performance loss even when just a few of these features were active.

At TSP you can find the proper answer to it:

Quote from wodk4

Seriously though, the .dll has not been tested and bugfixed for vanilla FL yet.

So with other words a working version yet has to be created... question would be when or if that is really happening:

Quote from Sizer

You know what? I think after all the work WE put into it, we deserve to have a small period of exclusivity, don't you think?

And even then... if you want to play with these graphics then you will have to stop playing Crossfire:

Quote

FW:ToW_Sushi Nov 6 2012, 1:11pm replied:
For most mods with the exception of one
VishnuCF Nov 7 2012, 2:12pm replied:
which mod?
FW:ToW_Sushi Nov 7 2012, 10:38pm replied:
CF

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Scotty:
"I've never beamed three people from two targets onto one pad before!" (sorry, just came to my mind in this situation)

The presented vids might look good and shiny... still, after 4 years of development I dont see a stable Freeworlds server with players on it.
The mod yet has to prove its worth and if the players dont like the mod design and the gameplay then all these shiny graphics wont prevent that people are leaving the (upcoming) servers again.

You are talking about the Top 5 alltime Modders for Freelancer and several bright shining community stars. Noone without a similar skilled Dev Team will be able to bring Features and stuff like they did lately - because they was putting together 40-50 years of Freelancer modding experience from some of the most successful Mods.

What they did is awesome for the engine, the models, the features and future possibilities - you do not want to seriously compare an updated Falcon Texture or a taken Battleship Mesh with their stuff, would you?

If i have only a close look to the lately released Destroyer Model, the dynamic, manualy Tradelane and Jumphole spawning and using or now this engine upgrade you may clearly get an idea what's possible with the FL engine when you have a few experts working on it - nobody is at the half yet with the whole engine and apart from a very few, most modders are just changing offsets.

The full quote of wodk4 on TSP is:

Quote

So you took the client .dll of the Freeworlds Tides of War Demo (which is a work in progress), hacked the left-top string and now you're wondering about bags?

Seriously though, the .dll has not been tested and bugfixed for vanilla FL yet. Just wait for the proper release which will be sometime after ToW hits 1.0

He was answering someone migrating the mentioned dll to a complete different mod. The working version for Vanilla or other Mods seems indeed still have to be created but i doubt that i personally would focus on other Mods or Vanilla before ours (SoF), everyone would exactly answer the same way. That CF is excluded from the usage of that stuff is imO because of the policy CF is running since years now towards the rest of the Freelancer Community, refering to personal experiences since 2006.

And yes, they totally deserve an exclusive usage of their own dll, still it is very generously to plan rare development time for others and from most other modders highly appreciated. I my time i did not saw a similar offer from swat tbh. (and with all respect for the time i spend here) it was the other way round.

Ofc. if ppl are running 8 years old Computers while switching every good looking part off they may run the game were i personally take it as 99,9 percent of the fl community are doing - i enjoy on full HD Graphics, HD Textures, HD Enviroments, HD Effects, HD 3D Sound, upgraded renderers and much more rather than having smoke and dust as squares in front of a non textured non lighted and/or bumpmapped ship which is not producing a shadow on another not textured ship while flying through a giant suns corona which i can not see because of my settings while white squares of the suns effect are all around that ship skeleton. Probably someone could be asked for wireframe only models so these ppl. can play Freelancer on an Amiga or Atari ST too? Also in this case i would ofc. not be interested in letting the client do lesser work while using dx9 for effects so the fps would not decrease dramatically while using the texture alpha channel for nebulas instead of dx9 (9 not 10 or 11!). But i surely would not interpret a dx9 topic with a dramtic server lag when refering to client sided grafics improvements.

when i am asked about the best FL modders then I clearly have other names in mind
names which have delivered successful mod over a very long time

to say that we at swat dont support others and dont share our work with others is probably based on a very limited view and lack of knowledge
We have actively supported many fl mod projects and shared our work with other modders. And i am not talking about tiny mods which nobody knows... i am talking about mods like war torn, new universe, mu, genesis and even freeworlds (yep)

The only reason why CF may not use the dx9 plugin actually because i did kick their asses... thats it.
But it is interesting to know that a very large amount of modders which once where active at their forum meanwhile have stopped doing so... many left from there and are doing their own thing now... unfortunatly some left FL totally. There is only a handfull left today.
SWAT follows a very fair policy towards other mods and servers... if they are fair to use we will be fair to them... if they share stuff with us then we will share stuff with them.
If they do sick stuff (just like a few days ago) we will let them know how unpleased we are.
(w0dk4 btw was the first person in the FL community who denied the use of a public tool to a group of people -> that was btw. in 2006... we have never done that)
We even let you post here eventhough we have a list of reason for making a different decision.

FWTOW clearly is an ambicious project... but to say that this the uber project that revolutionizes FL is a bit too much.
The modders still have not released a working version... it is not sure if they ever will release something working and stable... and last but not least the mod has not proved to be successful yet. The demo server did not keep the players very long before they left back to their other mods.
I am just talking about the facts... everything else is wish thinking and has to be proved first.

When talking about facts... you see the performance problems in the latest vid very clearly (im just saying).

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

when i am asked about the best FL modders then I clearly have other names in mind
names which have delivered successful mod over a very long time

I didn't asked you i stated facts.

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

to say that we at swat dont support others and dont share our work with others is probably based on a very limited view and lack of knowledge
We have actively supported many fl mod projects and shared our work with other modders. And i am not talking about tiny mods which nobody knows... i am talking about mods like war torn, new universe, mu, genesis and even freeworlds (yep)

yeah, it's obvious that you have an other opinion about this topic - but that's it, your opinion.

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

The only reason why CF may not use the dx9 plugin actually because i did kick their asses... thats it.

hmmm, that sounds like the result isn't for CF, is it?

Currently their are many good looking Mod's with tons of features and improvements out - in the future it may not be enough just to say to have the most advanced mod. You are creating Freelancer 2.0 as said often enough, right?

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

But it is interesting to know that a very large amount of modders which once where active at their forum meanwhile have stopped doing so... many left from there and are doing their own thing now... unfortunatly some left FL totally. There is only a handfull left today.

You have a long time mod - how many modders from the very beginning are left?
Why not reading your own posts about the lack of support to CF you are claiming on a regular base. Would you say that you are somewhat guilty for the ppl leaving? But ofc. a handfull of the best modders are delivering results like shown in several dev videos of FW - awesome stuff.

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

SWAT follows a very fair policy towards other mods and servers... if they are fair to use we will be fair to them... if they share stuff with us then we will share stuff with them.
If they do sick stuff (just like a few days ago) we will let them know how unpleased we are.

As always, your decision, your mod your attitude your point of view. As always too - the consequences which will likely backfire on you and in some cases also on your mod.

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

(w0dk4 btw was the first person in the FL community who denied the use of a public tool to a group of people -> that was btw. in 2006... we have never done that)

He for sure had his reasons - at least he wouldn't do it without a reason - as nobody would. But in fact i can see many global tools covering the freelancer community as a whole and taking care of them - from him. That looks like a Teamplayer.

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

We even let you post here eventhough we have a list of reason for making a different decision.

How much do you think i am interested in posting here - my list ist for sure long enough too! I post my meaning about good projects which has the potential to bring players back to Freelancer instead of driving them away. You still may not have noticed it but Freelancer Players are a rare ressource these Days - that includes Freelancer CF Players. If you can't stand other meanings do whatever you like, this is your place - and your place only.

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

FWTOW clearly is an ambicious project... but to say that this the uber project that revolutionizes FL is a bit too much.
The modders still have not released a working version... it is not sure if they ever will release something working and stable... and last but not least the mod has not proved to be successful yet. The demo server did not keep the players very long before they left back to their other mods.
I am just talking about the facts... everything else is wish thinking and has to be proved first.

Without these potential Freelancer will not survive - it's time to rethink. Not every Mod is written for a reason - some are made just for fun but some are made for attract players. The mentioned above has everything needed to get Players involved over a long time - could that be a problem for yours?

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

When talking about facts... you see the performance problems in the latest vid very clearly (im just saying).

ok, finally a request for facts - nice:

Facts:
Using Fraps lowers the perfomance of Freelancer greatly.
The Server and the Client are performance breaks as well.

When i am using my Dev Server to record a video like this: http://sof.zumreden.de/portal/?p=353 with many effects i get not more than 20 Fps. When using the Gameserver for it the Framerate is higher.
Normally i have several other programs running while modding - also decreasing the performace. The Framerate without fraps is pretty good ...

So what?

If they told that the inGame Fps is also ok while fighting, than it's ok - as it is for every other mod too. Easy end of the story.

And btw. ever tried to see more than 18 pictures per second?

On another thread about their progress i was reading something from a player which says it all:

It got created.
It's looking good.

Much better than writing so much - why not simply creating your own dx9.dll?

Hm,

dunno but w0dka is a coder/programmer - he is able to create tools. OP actually is no coder nor a programmer. That is comparing apples with peaches. Just sayin.
(That btw answers your last question: OP has not the expertise to create a dx9.dll which requires a lot of coding knowledge. You could ask that question Sushi too [as far as i know he also is no coder but kinda project leader])
Which might point out that w0dka is a teamplayer but which must not mean that OP is no teamplayer.

I think their mod is probably not that much interesting for FL players as its a total conversation mod. Its like all those mods which are based on the half life engine but are not half life and always get many votes in the annual votings on moddb.
Imo its another game using a known engine. If i want to play Freelancer as game or FL mods then i probably would choose a mod that is FL and not Star Wars. I keep this with every game so far that i played.

In my humble opinion - if i would like to play Merels then i very probably wont look for Chess that feels and looks like Merels (which is also comparing apples with peaches :)). They probably will get players once they are released but i wont say they are FL players, just because FWTOW uses the FL "engine".

And now i am sure someone from FWTOW would say i sound like OP
And in the end it shall mean that i do not discredit their huge amount of time they have already invest into this project

I just don't care about graphics. I am still playing:
Battlefield Vietnam
Command and Conquer Tiberian Dawn and Tiberian sun
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadows of Chernobyl
Call Of Duty 1 and 2
Total Annihilation
and I don't care about graphics. I care about atmosphere of the game. BFV is cool, C&C is cool (Especially C&C TS), S.T.A.L.K.E.R is the game I still want to play (nostalgia...), CoD 1 - just don't ask, feeling of "just relax and pull the trigger", TA - oh, just don't ask too.
And Freelancer always had the place of the games that pulls me closer over and over again. Interest was revived by Discovery (Yes, I still have FL Disco), and, later, by Crossfire.
You already upped the graphics of FL, and that's enough. By the way, CF 2.0. seem to be very improved.

after reading DWs first comment about facts i stopped reading as its actually just bullshit

when you talk about facts you also should talk about that the mod is in development for meanwhile ... 5-6 years or so and has 0 players
period!

these so called "best FL modders" are for sure experienced when it gets to coding stuff... but they lack alot of knowledge in many other areas

the best FL modders are the ones which have build the best working FL mods... period!
... not the ones which year for year say "we will release it soon" (just about the time that the moty starts)... so lets wait for the moty 2013

Quote from Ajay

I just don't care about graphics. I am still playing:
Call Of Duty 1 and 2

Agree! Same with me lol

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

after reading DWs first comment about facts i stopped reading as its actually just bullshit

when you talk about facts you also should talk about that the mod is in development for meanwhile ... 5-6 years or so and has 0 players
period!

these so called "best FL modders" are for sure experienced when it gets to coding stuff... but they lack alot of knowledge in many other areas

the best FL modders are the ones which have build the best working FL mods... period!
... not the ones which year for year say "we will release it soon" (just about the time that the moty starts)... so lets wait for the moty 2013

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I understand that there are mods in the real world which graphics are far better than the ones from CF and additional running smoother - but you are creating Freelancer 2.0 as far as you mentioned - so why not smile about the attempt of them to create an awesome looking Freelancer Mod?

If you have a look to their modding team you may get an idea who is working at it and who they are, anyway - critics and serious conversations never was your strength - bashing is nearer as proved above. Modders like - just as an example Sol Command - do not run own servers but contains to the best what the scene has to offer currently. Just look into your Mod and count the models you are using from him. Same goes for w0dka, adoxa and many many others.

Just saying bah - they are not good is somewhat far from reality - especially in a thread of a Freelancer Mod which is breaking limits. I am also wondering, that if you kicked their asses (whatever you meant with it), they are still together - working on solutions and have fun, while you?