pirate clans that are not red

Such problems usually happen when ppl do not look (or ignore) on differences between different mods. If you try to ask little around, you can learn that hud color depends about player affilation to NPCs which is something completely else as crossfire role-play. For pirates and also other cf rp types are given rules which are on server page. You can get also help and many advices ... all this need only one: ask.

... gl on disco.

Well, i think you just need some friends I guess you played the Police RP (have a look at index.php?page=Article&articleID=956&languageID=1 )

Overwiev of clans are here index.php?page=Thread&threadID=23843

I don't know the D.. server, but this has worked out for a lot of people on Crossfire for many years!

reading the rules helps, there are the roleplays explained including the licenses

Yep, there are 3 possibilities for KOS (Kill On Sight) in RP "allowed" without warning :
1. pirate versus police
2. police versus pirate
3. mercenary (bounty hunter) versus prey (someone, who has a bounty on his head)

Anyway, it's considered good server conduct to - at least - send a system message when someone is after someone elses bum,
like a merc : "Prey, I C U !" or police : "Everey pirate, pay fine or die!" or pirate "Now U Die cop !".
A lot of police as well as pirates on the server "offer" you - without regard of your RP-license the possibility of paying fine or tax,
i.e. to rescue a valuable cargo while on a train or freighter.

Beisde : Up to level 39 you have "newby protection", but you might decide other, if you feel up to the challange to take on a role already below this level.
You become part of RP automatically ONLY after reaching level 40, regardless what RP you might choose, police, pirate, smuggler, everybodies prey (Freelancer ).

IF another player violates this rules :
1. possibility : call upon a char with GR in its tag
2. possibility : if no GR is around call upon other police chars in-game, who most likely will be happy to "teach" this char a bit bout rules
3. possibility : bring it up here on the forums with most likly about the same result as possibilizy 2

And why a police licence don't make you "red" for pirate licencers - and vice versa :
the npcs ARE HAVING a role and a function also, not only in the SP-campaign but even on the server,
which is why they are pretty damn hard compared to other mods.
You have to think about your reputation against npc factions for conducting some tasks.

That's why a RP-pirat may be "affiliated" for the npcs even to nps navies, military and police.

For distinguishing in RP :
You might have seen these 'lil colored diamonds over some chars. They come with a roleplay licence and tell you who's what.
Second to that : have a look on the chat list from time to time. It tells you who's in what system AND - if he's member of a clan,
the clan tag in front of the char name give you a hint what is his "profession". Just check the server clan list before.

Quote from Martind Forlon

Such problems usually happen when ppl do not look (or ignore) on differences between different mods. If you try to ask little around, you can learn that hud color depends about player affilation to NPCs which is something completely else as crossfire role-play. For pirates and also other cf rp types are given rules which are on server page. You can get also help and many advices ... all this need only one: ask.

... gl on disco.

As a new player on this mod and server, I would like to give my observations/opinions towards this particular response of the topic.

Different Mods; Those of us who actually take the time and trouble to read the plethora of information contained herein for this mod, actually would understand the differences. For example, I also play Disco, Underverse, and a couple of other minor mods just to see how far the mod community has come (I remember when Lancers Reactor was the go to community repository, and when the 1st Crossfire came out) since Freelancer showed way back when. The OP's opening statement can (and does to some extent) have merit, and in my case, has validity because I have been exposed to similar situations in my brief time on here (Disco has similar issues as well, human nature vastly ironic at times). Simply stating that it is the problem of the player for not reading the appropriate info is in my opinion a blanket statement, and not conducive to resolving any potential problems.

Asking around; Again, similar situation to Disco (and I apologize for the comparison), where an individual takes the time and trouble to read all( or most) of the pertinent data in order to maximize the "fun factor" in the game, only to have any inquiries rebuffed or told "I don't talk to noobs" , which leaves the new player feeling dejected or otherwise unwilling to continue in MP RP. A suggestion to alleviate this particular problem would be for in game admins ( TBH, I haven't seen any yet) to keep an eye out for new players and be proactive in offering to help out with questions or issues that may arise when a new player first logs on.

CF/Pirates RP; This IMO is abused in the extreme ( I'll try to avoid Disco references here :)). My first night on here do to pirate activity was probably the most frustrating part of my evening due to continuous bribes (once I was past level 40), or even flat out getting iced (and yes, I read which systems require permission before entering) just for exploring local systems to set up trade runs. I realize that there is a ticket system to report this, but why? TBH, given that the server population is so small, why should I potentially antagonize a lvl 70+ player who will make my the rest of my MP time on the server hell (and this is from experience, I assure you)? The issue is endemic with a percentage of the vets who populate this server, the mentality of " this is mine and why should I bother to share anything with you, especially if your going to up and leave in a few weeks anyway". I understand this particular aspect (and unfortunately, have done this myself) of a vet's perspective, but it doesn't alleviate the underlying problem at hand.

...gl on disco;

This, I must say saddened me. Instead of trying to get to the root of the problem and try to understand what the overall issue might be, and perhaps coming up with a potential series of solutions, you merely wished him on his way and the server lost a potential long term player. Do I understand your blasé attitude? of course I do. You have undoubtedly encountered more than your fair share of complaining new players in the life time of this server. However, as a new player who takes the time and trouble to read the available info, create a forum account, or even post an occasional comment or rant, seeing an Admin giving a new player some rather cryptic sentences in response to a posed question concerning fairness (which I'm sure you have been asked countless times) in such a manner demonstrates a level of callousness. To a new player, seeing that type of interaction, well, it just doesn't inspire any levels of trust in maintaining any sense of belonging to a community, more like the feeling of being an outsider who is allowed to play with the rich kids toys.

Anyway. My apologies for taking up your time to read this. Just thought I should give my particular perspective concerning this topic.

Shadow.

Shadowdragon: hello here. Thx for nicely washingy my head but here is few details you maybe missed:

1) if player need help, then is here or in space usually more ppl willing to help and actually doing it all the time. I talked with many ppl in space and got big pack of positive comments that here are ppl able and willing to help newbies (and these helping also are surprisingly also some pierats). You have actually good chance to get help (advices) from majority of CF players able speaking in language which you both understad.

2) now I will repeat myself: this above require that player ask (politely posted questions usually have here ways bigger chance for wide reply). I see it very different when I read 'I was shot by some ugly player, what I can do?' as when is from post clearly seen that writer do not have idea how are given conditions for play on server (server rules) and in the same post he asks to delete his account (this usualy means he already left).

3) was mentined that you do not saw in game admins (called here server police aka galaxy rangers) ... well, it is probably because they do not spent all theirs time in admin chars while are in space. It is actually very easy to meet us in game bcs we are in space very often (using link in my siggy can help).

another mentioned thing was ticket-system. This system is created exatly for that reason that you can solve there your issue private with server staff. It can serve not only for 'report' but we can there explain if is player wrong with evaluating situation and we can also try to prevent FURTHER rules breaking (is more ways how we can do this) - like talk with player breaking server rules. If that player ignore this warning, then he need to deal with consequences. Main thing is, that if player can continuously break rules (bcs no one report thim) then it do ways bigger damage as if he is not on server. Another thing is, that unless you wear police (pirate) license, there is no way (which is ok with server rules) how anyone can do 'hell' for you. Yes, you can have some troubles, but again you can in space get help, or we can give you advices how to dealt with concrete problem.

4) veterans. well, maybe your mistake is, that player lvl have practically nothing to do with that ( as also it not give info about player skill or mod knowledge ). Actually cf have in space active only very few players which can be called veterans and these are in more cases able and willing to help newbies.

5) pirates in space: all depends about perspective how you will look on problem. Yes, I agree they can be 'problem' for newbie on start, but with little more experience you can surprisingly learn, that dealt with them is in more cases very easy. But this require your will do not give up and try search ways which will work best for you. If player give up after first trouble, then there is no way how to help him.

6) you was right about your second quote, I alloved myself to be little sarcastics there. I know that is usually better be silent in such case and keep my comment for myself, but from time to time I give for yourself a luxury to do it. Yes, it wasn't very nice, but ... action -> reaction (counting how much time I needed for this reply I better should keep yourself short when posted my first reply here ;)).

Such a lenghty and, as it seems by your "experience" on FL rather "well-educated" opinion, even if a bit off topic and not relly related to the opening post, deserves a proper answer.

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...take the time and trouble to read the plethora of information contained herein for this mod,...

Well, I don`t have a statistic on that, but most of these informations a related to technical question, since this mod admittable is one of the more/most complex ones for freelancer and a bit tricky - in technical installation terms.
Sure, there's also a lot of chatter here regarding the playing on the server itself, regarding "role-play", as the maker(s) of this mod have an own understanding and "taste" of it, that differs from most other mods, at least as they are played. That this occurs IS mostly due to not reading the proper info on how this mod is thought to be played. Resulting in that many "newer/younger" players who doesn`t read such rules at all and seek a different find of role-play (like: PvP as PvP can 'n nothing else) bust the fun for others and esp for ... complete newbies.

Quote

Simply stating that it is the problem of the player for not reading the appropriate info is in my opinion a blanket statement, ...

I'm sure you've read all of the posts here. The community of this server doesn't NEVER "simply" states something. Picking only one of the posts and taking it as examplary is abit unfair - to the community. There are a lot of people here who try to answer problem-questions in several ways. As it can be seen and read in just this thread.
And I can't help, but compared to other mods (esp. to the alltime mentioned Disco) this server has one of the SHORTEST set of rules at all for rather evolved concept of fighter-notcapship-orientated (the "mods taste") roleplay.
TBH, I doubt that the thread-starter has read the Disco rules, that are so extended, that you almot need at least a bachelors degree in law.

Quote

Asking around; .... only to have any inquiries rebuffed or told "I don't talk to noobs"....

This I take a bit personally, since I doubt that any of the only a bit longer playing members here would EVER say this.
The situations were newbies have been helped with money , with tips, hints, "spoilers", with flying around with them to the "interesting" places", even with protecting them from "ruthless pirates" and introducing them in the "arts of playing, living, fighting the CF-universe" are without number. Own experience by doing so myself, seeing others of the community doing so and going through it myself - several time .
But I admitt, this

Quote

...for in game admins ( TBH, I haven't seen any yet)...

is a bit of a problem. IMO mostly related to the rather - compared to ... others - small number of "seasoned" players active in-game on the server, as many of them are occupied by playing also other games, with working on the "new" CF 2.0, waiting for it or simple Real Life (yeah, they've come to age ).

Quote

CF/Pirates RP; This IMO is abused in the extreme ...

IMO this is mostly related to ... everybody wants to be pirate (as yourself, as it seems ) and the CF/Police RP can only randomly be seen. It looks that most people think Police-RP is something like server-police ... An unfortunate and heavy misunderstanding.
As you - as a freelancer ( ? ) did not call for police - allowed part of roleplay, calling for police - you payed "bribes" after lvl 40 (I assume you mean "tax", as bribes are payed on stations to "adjust" npc reputation.) You could have also payed a merc (more of tzem around than police) to protect you from further pirate activity against you, even if you should be a pirate by yourself.
Why didn't you do that ? As you've read the rules you should have known of this possibilty ?

Quote

...antagonize a lvl 70+ player who will make my the rest of my MP time on the server hell (and this is from experience, I assure you)...

Yeah these kind of harassment occurs - EVERYWHERE. That's what ticket system - beside other possibilities - is for. With the use of it, such players won't stay on the server much longer. Oh, and don't be "afraid" of seemingly high lvl. This only regards to the "cash" money on a char. The "true bad boys " are something lvl 50 - 60, keeping their money on the "bank account" (modern times). And there're are only few things easier on CF, than making money. The in-game lvl of a player tell you almost nothing on his probable "veteran-status".

Quote

..." this is mine and why should I bother to share anything with you, especially if your going to up and leave in a few weeks anyway"...

This kind of "veteran" I've NEVER EVER met on the server as well as here on the forums. They don't stay long enough to count as such . But I admitt that there are a lot of veterans that try to insist of the kind of playing here, the mod is made for. Unfortunatly they are more likly to be driven away than the ruthless, rule-less playing "youngsters" with the harassing attitude of fighting, PvP-ing each 'n everybody they come across.

Quote

...gl on disco;

Don't you interprete too much into this ? I would interprete it as being polite - after the the proper hint was giving and , as can be seen in post #5 taken.
And every new player, who comes here can also see - not only in this thread but also on the countless others answering almost the same question and every other questions countless times, that there are always more than one member of this community around helping in many different ways. But for that he should look around - at least a bit.Therefor I can't concur to

Quote

To a new player, seeing that type of interaction, well, it just doesn't inspire any levels of trust in maintaining any sense of belonging to a community, more like the feeling of being an outsider who is allowed to play with the rich kids toys.

Here on the forums almost everything possible is and will be done to accomodate every new player to become a part of the CF universe, as it is made.

Only thing NOT to be done - changing the mods "taste". To take on this, is theONLY "sine qua non" condition required.

edit: to be taken as a supplementary for FORLONs post. U have be faster, again

As the server admin i also will share my views on this matter.
I actually dont want to comment everything... just offering a different perspective on this matter.

towmater made his very first post on this forum with a "fuck you and fuck this mod attitude" followed by a "Ill leave anyway" comment.
Anyone who introduces hisself in such a way to a community should not be surprised to get a "farewell" as reply.
He did not ask for help, he did not ask for an advice nor did he he come here to give constructive critics.
All he did was to show very a bad attitude that we actually dont need here in this community.

Would he probably have been a good player? I don't know. Its actually pretty unimportant as he decided to leave and every following comment did not make the situation worse.
I am the server admin and no you cleary wont find me on the server guiding every new player through the game. That simply is not possible.
My job is to keep the server running and to take care of all the problems that the players report to me. My job also is to keep this community running, keep Lancers Reactor running, develop the Crossfire mod and take care of other game sections of the SWAT network. With other words I actually need a 36 hours day.
For the Crossfire server we have a good bunch of people which are online and take care of rule violations and RP incidents. These people (the GRs) help practically everywhere. They mediate between players, investigate RP and rule violations and help new players where they can by guiding them through the game and even offer financial help. Even the official Event managers help players and take care of certain issues.
I can tell that for sure as i am getting reports about almost everything that happens on the server.

And here on the Portal... here every players who decides to interact in a friendly (normal) way is welcomed by the community, gets help, advice, information and practically anything he/she needs.
I absolutely do not agree with the critics about unfair treatment.
Seriously, if towmater would have wanted help then he could have asked for it and/or could have acted in a more respectful way.
Afterall we did not attack him on the server or treat him unfair in any way. We did nothing to deserve such an attitude.
Many of us here spend good amounts of money, time and work to provide a community and game environment for players like him ... we do that for free and it is even save to say that without our work servers like discovery wouldnt have many players today.

And while every RP can lead to problems there always is a way to fix such problems again if you allow it. A chance that was not even granted to us after the first post of this thread.
You can not come from one mod to another and expect that everything works the same way. Discovery has a few RP features and mechanics that we dont have and Crossfire has hundreds of features that are in no other mod. Nobody can expect us to adapt and grant the wishes of every player that comes from a different server. They have to adept if they switch to a new server/mod. Either they do or they never learn something new... never find out that other RP mechanics are also working.
If a player is not willing to adapt then "farewell".

Crossfire is much different from other mods but it also is the most successful mod in general.
That does not prevent us from receiving complaints of players which did not take the time to read the rules or discover the game.
E.g. There are countless of players that complained about the singleplayer difficulty... "It is ridiculous difficult"... "wtf. 10mio for a fighter?".... etc.
These people installed the mod and tried to play it like vanilla FL and then run into problems... well... this is not vanilla FL and this is no other "minor" mod that they played before.
They better start watching the combat guides which we provided on the launcher or they simply buy better equipment with the additional money that we provided in order to fight NPCs... and they should also better consider that we gave them countless of new ways to earn money so they can buy better ships (higher rewards on missions, dynamic market, black market goods, container market, mining, escape pods, etc.).
Some players only see problems... but that is only because they dont really bother to discover the mod and use the additional features we have provided.
Same applies to the online experience.

my views are well known and not agreed with. so no further comment is needed, except , here we go again.

thread closed, perhaps???

Ray OK

Quote

i was in a freighter with 5k shields and the bs blasted me with out taxing

In the end, he prolly just got spawnkilled by ASF vs CSF battleship FLAK when entering X, like usual (it's what sometimes happen when you make a new char and go through X system, like to Tarsus, to equip it)... those are more dangerous than the people & pirates hanging at Planet X. If so, it wasn't even related with RP, as with a freighter with 5k shields, I doubt he had over the minimum level to be engaged in RP.

Maybe the gate's areas could have a nullzone for NPCs to fix that.

No spawn-killing by NPC .... OOhhh ....

Would that be even possible ???

.... think of Altair sector : undocking and NOT being down to no-shields and only 1/2 hull left before able to move ....

edit:
Sry, I know it's ... couldn't help

my thanks kind Sir, much appreciated. Hmnn, I'm afraid I don't quite understand your colloquialism of "washing your head". I'm going to interpret that as "giving me a wake up call" that we use here in the States. It wasn't my intent for that post to come across as a rebuke, and if it did so, I apologize.

1) You are correct. There are good people to interact with in space (and I have and am doing so), and to be able interact with those individuals is quite enjoyable. However, my first few hours ( and encounters) on the server were less than enjoyable. I realize that there is a potential language barrier on this server, and have taken that into account, but that doesn't mean that everyone is going to be cordial in their interactions with a new player, which was what I was trying to point out. I in no way meant to imply that this is a hostile server towards newcomers, merely pointing out what I have encountered on my first day on board as a comparison. No insult was intended towards anyone.

2) I agree with you for the most part. My observation within this context is that the individual was extremely young, impatient, and lacking sufficiant skill in articulating his issues in a positive and constructive manner. However, in this particular context, I was merely giving my opinion of what could be percieved as lacking any initiative of turning a negative into a positive. While I can certainly see yours and others opinions concerning this issue ( epecially givien the long and illuminating history of this mod), you will have to admit that to a new comer, your response can be misinterpreted at the very least as coming across as jaded, hence my responses.

3) This was actually just an observation, not a criticism. Given the time zone differences, and probably the time frame that I am logged on in order to play, it doesn't particularly surprise me that very few people are online, let alone any Rangers being on as well. This is not really an issue for me, as I enjoy playing irregardless.

Ticket system; Understood. But as a new player, starting off by complaing about pirate bullying by complaing to the admins right off the bat is usually not conducive to attempting friendly relations on a new server. Again, this could be contstrued as a perception error.

4) Certainly understandable, and I have no problem admitting my mistakes. Given my limited experience thus far, I am undoubtably equating character level with veteran level in terms of longevity for players. For that, I am in error, and will attempt modify my perception of player status. Thank you for bringing that to my attention, as I didn't consider that possibility.

5) Hmnnn. An interesting conundrum concerning this aspect. My perspective is that in my second hour of playing, my first encounter with a pirate demanding 5milc and then getting smoked when attempting to RP with the individual isn't really part of my fun factor meter I do agree that not all players/pirates are like that, but for a new player who doesn't have any real experience (fortunately I do have it) in these kinds of situations, it could be rather unsettleing. I do agree about the not giving up, I know I certainly won't ( I'm too old and stubborn, lol).

6) We're all human, and have different tipping points where social interaction is concerned. I certainly didn't mean my comment as a rebuke or to come across as if I'm better than you. I was merely trying to point out that despite the given provication from that young lad, there is always a potential to salvage something positive in any given situation (hmnn, gadzooks, am I really that old to be waxing loquatious like this? lol) in order for all those involved to benefit.

@ Mr.'s Zitzat and SWAT; unfortuneately I have to get ready for work, so I am unable to respond to your posts at this time. I will attempt to do so later, as I believe conducive dialogue assist in alleviating any potential for misunderstandings. My sincere thanks for your responses to my posts.

Shadow.

@ RayOk; I am not exactly sure of your insistance here. You wish to have a thread closed because you have already given your opinion and you feel that this is old news? Interesting.
Very well. I do apologize for taking up your valuable time Sir in reading this topic thread, but since I didn't happen to see any current (timeframe wise) posts concerning this and was responding to a post in an established thread, I trust you will allow me a small modicum of time in which to convey my thoughts/responses to a given situation. I will of course attempt to be concise, as well as limit my prose in this and all future posts in order to alleviate any potential literary onsomnia in regards to your viewing impatience.
I do thank you for your post though, quite refreshing.

Shadowdragon,,,,,no apologies necessary......I had answered a thread about bullying a few days ago and got chewed out by the establishment, the crack was aimed at them as they do not like to be reminded that bullying does take place.

your post was very intelligent, but I knew/thought that it would be received negatively.

regards

Ray OK

@ Shadowdragon

I am looking forward for your response .

Hopefully it might throw some light on your conception of

Quote

...the root of the problem and try to understand what the overall issue might be, and perhaps coming up with a potential series of solutions. ...

(Sry, coudn't resist to stay true to your "nicknaming". )

RayOK: mentioned thread was closed because it was going out of control with repeating the same stuff again and again.

As I understand it, bullying exist in all MP games (in some form) as also in RL. But as long as pirates follows server rules, there can't be talked about "bullying". You may do not like them for more reasons, but is a fact that they are absolutely necessary for crossfire RP in general. Some of them play more "user friendly" some less, but it is nothing exceptional. You have as much different ppls behavior as you have ppl. If pirate break rules, do it regularly and no one report him, then is clear that players want to have it that way.

But I think that this is not the main problem, main problem is (imo) that players are not willing to try different approach even in case they hit repeatedly with theirs head a wall. Keyword here is ability to adapt and to show a will to try search a ways where his head will avoid hitting a wall. Avoid or dealt successfully with pirates simply is possible also in economy char or without combat skills. Yes, you need to have experience for this, but because I play often I can clearly state that in big % cases is problem not in pirate, but in a player which needs to deal with him. Wise player can for example very soon learn that majority of "no fun" experience can happen in X or near this system. Players which do not want adapt do the same mistake again and again despite our countless attempts to help them. Crossfire have so huge space that player can be here years and meet pirate only very occasionally. If player go to place where pirates usually take a rest, then he need count with "problems" and prepare to dealt with them**. I know that exist cases when is pirate quick with guns as also many other situations which looks bad from "victim" perspective. But all this can be solved if player really try to search solution. For some players is absolutely not acceptable to pay tax or fine because "I worked hard on my moneys and no one will get them" Then are they killed and start complain how pirate(s) (or police) made hell for them. They completely forget that they play a MP game where they can not only gain but also lose in-game moneys. Was mentioned that for new players it is bad experience. I see it little different: I think that especially new player need to have bad (as also good) experience because it is imo only one way how he can evolve (related to server given role-play and ways he use for play).

**ask yourself how often you:

• hire mercenary to defend you
• watch system where you are and nearest ones for potential danger to your activities
• call police officer for help
• spent your time to learn players playing regularly (so you can ask help when needed)
• set a bounty on pirate (or any other RP) which repeatedly do our life harder
• change your chosen route because you see potential danger
• do something to little improve your combat skills
• ask or investigate by yourself how works different RP on server
• ....
• ....
• .... such list can be very long

If you wish to kick the bullies ass, join a cop clan or just tag along with some cops and you'll get the attention you want. That's all I can say here @ RayOK

He can't, he said he only plays singleplayer.

Anyway, we're going a bit off topic This thread had nothing to do with bullying.