Reputation system and BMG market

There are 44 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by SWAT_OP-R8R.

    I put these 2 topics together as they are linked in many ways.
    I mainly would like to discuss whats being said on the other RP discussion thread related to the RP licences.


    2 Ideas/suggestions came up


    1. Linking the Licenses with real reputation changes
    that means if you decide to be a pirate all legal factions would go hostile on you
    if you decide to be a cop all unlawful factions would turn red


    side effect would be that you can not dock at stations owned by hostile groups
    I have collected every neccessary data.


    We have 313 stations/planets.
    49 unlawful bases
    91 lawful bases
    110 bases controlled by companies
    63 bases controlled by special factions (coalition, dks, order)
    The majority of CF bases are special ones followed by company controlled stations (38 bases).
    31 of the CF bases are lawful and only 15 are unlawful.


    Fact is we are facing a problem here as pirates/smugglers wouldnt be able to visit a large number stations.
    But ok that are only some numbers.


    This is the reputation layout for the liberty police (I would use this and the reputations for the other police factions as layout for the Police RP)


    just taking all factions that are hostile to the f police factions
    we get this result


    That means 38 bases can not be docked by Cops. And 13 factions are hostile.


    Pirates:


    Pirates are naturally hostile to police and military factions.


    This are all police and military groups plus the bounty hunters (9 factions)


    Here the problems start again.... ALL 91 lawful bases belong to these factions. So pirates could not dock at these. Thats almost 1/3 of the total bases (from the pirates view -> pretty much inacceptable).
    Excluding the Bounty Hunters and Militaries would be an considerable option. So Pirates will only be hostile to the 4 Police Factions. This would reduce the bases that pirates cant dock to 66.
    With a few changes to the stations I can probably can change the station ownership of 15-20 stations to neutral or unlawful ones. That would balance everything a bit.

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    BMG market


    My thoughts:
    Since we have 49 unlawful stations it makes sense to sell BMGs only there.
    In a limited way I can adjust the random economy (eventhough that will be tricky).


    It makes pretty much sense for smugglers to know where they can buy their illegal commodities aswell as it makes sense that cops know where smugglers might start trading.
    I personally would not limit the places where smugglers can sell the illegal commodities to just those unlawful stations.
    Maybe it would be good if they can sell that stuff to planets and stations controlled by "neutral" companies (110 bases).


    So we would have traderoutes from unlawful bases to neutral bases. -> that would be about 500 routes (ignoring the dynamic economy)
    i have no idea yet how to calculate everything but ok


    next question is if the BMGs are handled dynamically within the limitations of these 500 routes or if we set fixed BMG routes (i dislike the fixed routes eventhough they are easier to create)
    considering we create something dynamic we have a variation of 1401400 trade conditions for BMG commodities

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
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    Fifty percent pain,
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    For now the math goes correctly and acceptable.


    Bounty Hunters and Militaries could be neutral for pirates, as you said, instead of hostile (but not friendly, no sense).



    But will killing NPCs of those factions affect reputation ? or you will deactivate that part, maybe except the "neutral companies and planets to have some freedom...


    EDIT: I should point as well, at the question: Will clan system stations/planets be affected ? It could make some issues of players who couldn't enter in some of their own clan's stations, but it would be quite great if police couldn't dock with stations in pirate clans and viceversa, or most of them except 1/few.


    Clan system's bases could be changed to fit the clan's RP... and so all Tarsus stations and planets would be police, where all Hiruga (except the station with Adv Champ shields) stations would be oirates.


    With this I reminded of another issue, the top class equip and weaponry can't be fully blocked for some players...

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Edited once, last by Michael ().

    More realistic now .... me liky



    And ,, well.. it might be more cooler if you make the trade routes going through the entire Sirius sector. ( But not as so many as they are now ). Perhaps 3-4 for major routes would be perfect^

    IMO there should be some short routes for less profit, and some really long routes (like to Earth, or to Coalition space, or even to DK space for a really huge profit) which obviously yield more cash, this would imo brighten up the RP since newcomers could cash in on short routes and the "big millionaires" could try their fortune on the long run

    plus the long routes could attract more traders to hire mercenaries and pirates would be more willing to hunt down these guys for huge taxes

    Yep ... and the pirates can organize themselves in which system to stop by and try taxing/killing the traders. And in the meentime, the traders could hire mercs or cops to escort them safely in space.


    And that's actually a big plus for the RP. As all of the roles are involved.

    This sounds an awful lot like Disco stuff. Our RP is a bit different than that, so I say leave the rep stuff the way it is.


    I like the ideas on the BMGs at unlawful bases, though. Kind of like the old Cardimine run.

    still don't get why rule changes are needed? Personally, I like to map the game as well as RP......do I then have to make a cheat "untagged LP char" just to map the game? Honestly...I'm not trying to start $iht

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    You didn't mapped it in 5 years ? hmm well... :P Ya, that's a point, maybe freelancing, with no license would allow you map the game, but you'll be subject to kill on sight by all RPs.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Will mercs maintain the neutral status with all factions and have a few where they are allies?
    Can we mess the rep with licences mounted when we kill an allied npc, for example a cop killing cop npc faction?


    With all types of RP in ASF/CSF sometimes to defend systems will be hard since not all will be able to dock. Maybe a single char with only a ASF or CSF licence can fix this.


    In shatered worlds all factions Licences have a hook command to put any player unfrienly with that faction.
    For example i am hired by pirates to kill cops, cops can make me unfriendly with cop factions... since i am siding with criminals, and lift the unfriendly status in the next hour, day or week...
    just a few ideias...

    With BMGs...


    You have Earth in Sol always selling three commodities... Coffee, Tobacco, and Sol Artifacts. Regardless of what else changes within the economy, Earth always sells these things... so it should be possible to have unlawful bases always selling BMGs... what bases will buy them, and at what price... that would be what changes... right?


    Faction Reps...


    Players can already mess up their reps so they can't dock at certain bases. Most don't do this, if they only run the expensive missions on Planet XFire against CSF... which seems nice and convenient as there are no CSF bases that one needs to dock at. If you look at Vanilla, if you chose to run missions, you inevitably ended up excluding some bases from you... if you were a trader, you would have the potential access for all bases. Since there is no "sneaking" onto a planet or base (We assume the technology is advanced such that you would be recognized regardless of your disguise) it makes sense to a degree that if you are a known pirate, there would be a lot of places that were off limits to you. As far as Smugglers are concerned... that's harder. A smuggler should have access to a wider number of bases... maybe even all the same bases traders have access to... maybe just never able to be "friendly"... which would allow them access to a base to buy and sell goods, but not to buy the equipment you would need to be "friendly" to buy... that is, if you want to put that system back into place.


    That's not a bad system to bring back either... where you need to be friendly with a faction to buy the best equipment at a particular base. It means when you choose a side, you do limit what equipment you can use.

    IF you worry that you can not dock a large part of the stations we also could make it that mounting a license does change your reputation and later you can do bribes to correct it.
    actually by logic nothing speaks against that.


    however, it would be cool to make a decision about it this before weekend as i need to get the work started

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

    And what option, that license make hostile factions after daily main server restart? Such way will be for players possible to dock/buy (temporary) at all bases if they will know where to get bribe.


    On other side is this limitation for police,pirates not fair if smugs and mercs have not such 'troubles'.


    I see possible way use 'neutral' rep for police,pirat bases for merc license (limiting to buy equip) and hostile(police), neutral(pirate) for smugglers.

    I actually dont want to completly limit equipments
    but in my eyes setting a initial Reputation once a license is mounted is pretty much fair and getting bribes is a gameplay element we should not exclude
    if someone wants to bribe cops to dock on a police station, well why not


    to reset the reputation in certain intervals is in my eyes extremly hard to impossible
    With giving an "initial" reputation for each RP faction + the option to gain back that reputation by unmounting and mounting the licence again we would have a good fair method which does not limit everything too much


    next to that i believe for huor and haegar this will be the easiest method of getting it done
    and it wouldnt require any overly complicated station balancing including writing new infocards or taking care of what clans want for their system


    probably it would even prevent license switching as it would overwrite previous rep-hacks

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

    This could be a welcome change to the distribution of goods and wealth in Crossfire. It is logical that everyone can't land everywhere, but, on the other hand, factions in CF aren't like classic Freelancer factions, and people tell me this is alot like Discovery. Not that there's anything bad in that being like discovery, it's just that people make a point of Crossfire being completely unlike Discovery.


    Is it possible to have some type of testing period on this when 1.9 comes out, to try out the practical side of things? I realize it's quite an endeavour to get all this stable and working, but the best reply we can have is after a while has passed and we've seen it in action...



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    very bad, our oldknown game are death
    we fallen are an pirate AND explorer clan (same like the most pirats) and if we cant explore we cant play
    jup i know the most police cant explore last years (too much doughnuts inside^^) but thats not the point


    and whats with the clan bases? in purian lake we have 2 planets (not much) and both are police bases, very bad idea
    its an old thing thats we pirats every handicapped in CF (take a look to the last changes, Trader- BS and so on)


    plz consider very well what doing here now, the most CF changes in the last years was blindfold, unbalanced, RP- and Serverdestructible and Piratcorrosive

    This looks very promising OP!


    If I understand though, this would mean there would be no need for police factions to patrol around
    "legal" areas, as there would be no BMG routes around (or maybe only passing through)?


    I was thinking it would be even "more exciting" to let BMG routes possible everywhere (don't tell me
    every citizen of planet Manhattan is nice and respectfull of the law!), and that smugglers with appropriate
    hacking reputation (bribe) could sneak in to transport illegal goods? (They would still need to be cautious
    if scanned in space though).

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    @ryder
    if we choose to set the reputation just once and allow bribing you could search for the neccessary rep hacks and still explore
    (this would be my prefered method as it is a mix of reputation system and freedom)


    Faaby
    since i was just talking about stations ... yes you can only sell it to worlds owned by companies
    since these worlds are by 98% close to territory of legal factions you have to cross police territory


    Shockwave
    I want to know which changes I have to do now
    once done they hardly can be undone as i can not simply overwrite a file with an older version

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!