Warrants

There are 36 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by StephanoV.

    Quote from SA_ARROW

    Police Officers can issue warrants for the arrest of a freelancer, a clan member or his entire clan (if this clan's leadership assumes responsability of its member's action). Only Police Officers or optionnal COMMISSIONNED mercenaries (acting as law enforcer in this context) can act under a warrant.

    Issuing a "warrant" for an entire clan can be problematic and can open the door to alot of abuse. Why not assume another path, one which if 50%+1 of the clans' characters have active warrants on them (not served) then they are declared "lawless" and KoSed for a long period of time , unless they make concessions (big concessions). Pirate clans may do this to establish their RP. It would greatly add to smuggler RP too, making it more "tactical".


    As I've said before, this concept will not work as well without the "jurisdiction and joint jurisdiction" concept.


    I don't think that mixing police RP with Mercenary RP is a good thing, mate...be it merc that plays police or police that plays merc, doesn't matter. Police has to stay police and merc has to stay merc. A merc takes on a bounty, not a "warrant".


    I still think that warrants should be issued on CHARS not on PLAYERS.

    Quote from SA_ARROW

    The same as bounties, the target cannot switch characters or hide in non-RP systems to avoid this RP.

    I completely agree with this.


    Quote from SA_ARROW

    A reason used to post a Warrant may only be used once (to prevent cops abuse). If the warrant has not been served in time, it can no longer be the object of a new warrant. (note that a general crime (smuggling) is not a reason but the precise event of such crime may be (x smuggled y at z time).

    I think it is a very good idea.

    Quote from SA_ARROW

    Warrant should be posted in the Police Alliance Roleplay board on the SWAT forums for everyone to see. As soon as a target is killed or has surrendered, it should post a reply in the corresponding warrant thread that the warrant has been server with a (timed : flhook /time) screenshot of the kill or the screenshot of the verbal agreement between the target and the law enforcer. As long as this action is not completed, the case cannot be officially closed. The law enforcer can post the outcome too but the task is on the target shoulders to avoid him getting arrested again.

    I think that only the mention that the "warrant" has been served would be enough (ie. "Status - Pending -> Status - Served").
    As I previously said, I think we would need more options...think about the "jail" thing and tell me what you think. As in the char needs to stay docked in a prison ship for a determined amount of time, rendering the char useless for that period and automatically issuing a new warrant for any escape out of the system or out of the base.

    Quote from SA_ARROW

    Proofs : Screenshots only

    Very good idea, will help combat abuse.


    Quote from SA_ARROW

    Surrender conditions : Financial or other compensation to make the warrant as "served".

    Yes, financian, other compensation (like "jail") or if subject does not comply -> violence (for the duration of the warrant, but not more often than 2 hours in between attacks) .

    Voila, in view a humble vaudevillian veteran...cast vicariously as both victim and villain, by the vicissitudes of fate...

    All this is very nice, but is not getting too much complicated?



    My opinion:


    A Police force finds out about criminal activity, if cannot deal it by himself calls for reinforcements from other police forces if needed.


    End :)



    I am sorry, but I fail to see difference between calling for help in game or from forum.
    Call this bounty, warrant, rewarded help or whatever.



    StephanoV: You keep saying we mix our RP, but does not PX also do some piracy and smuggling?
    (SA/PX fights often start with PX being found trading BMG)


    Mercs can collect bounties, but are they allowed to set them? Cops may be not the only ones not able to set bounties...


    I failed to see it explicitly written, in your own RP mercenary description:


    - Rear-Admiral Elodie Vox -
    _________________________________________________________
    Silver Arrows Head of Justice and Investigations Department
    _________________________________________________________
    Silver Arrows Galaxy Ranger



    -- -- Visit Us!
    _______________________________________________________________________
    SA_FAABY, SA_FAABY[ASF], SA_bomber_FAABY, SA_Judicator_FAABY
    [GR]Faaby

    Display Spoiler


    Regardless about what SA has done in the past, smuggling or whatnot, PX broke the laws enforced in our system by whatever document there is. (I don't have access to those "official" documents so don't ask me to quote.) PX has its warrents issued, and I believe at this point there is nothing more to be said.


    Display Spoiler

    Faaby


    With all do respect, please read what you posted another time.


    1. About PX doing "pirate" RP...although I made another similar post with another SA accusation. If you don't read the RP rules please go ahead and read all posts from a thread. In the RP rules, Open RP -> Monopolies all of that is explained. No mixing RP, it's all in the rules.


    2. Everybody is allowed to set bounties, cops and mercs included. Please read the rules you copy-pasted another time, more carefully.


    3. The problem is not with cops that set bounties, it's with the cops that collect them which are engaging in merc RP while doing so.


    About the "warrant" you can attack somebody in-game once. the "warrant" is there to ensure continuity and respect the players at the same time. That's all I'm going to say on the subject as I don't think further explanations are needed.


    @ Sequan


    Everything has consequences, even RP actions -> RP consequences.Action-reaction, meaning that if you spit against the wind, don't be surprised if it will turn against you, lol.
    I think it will be fine because you guys want to keep it within RP, we want the same so there shouldn't be any problems...as long as nobody influences things and directs them towards darker paths...



    @ Arrow


    About the "Warrant" -> I think we have a very cool thing here. It's certainly worth more discussion and improvement.
    In the next days I will try to sum up a project and send it to you via pm or mail and you could make moddifications on it (with another colour) and then we could meet in chat somewhere and figure out something. Then, if you want, we can present it in the Leaders' board so we can vote for it.


    What do you think?

    Voila, in view a humble vaudevillian veteran...cast vicariously as both victim and villain, by the vicissitudes of fate...

    My two cents:


    I don't like having to sit and read for three hours before i can log into a game and play.

    Quote

    2. Everybody is allowed to set bounties, cops and mercs included. Please read the rules you copy-pasted another time, more carefully.


    Do it again, see Faaby's post, and notice it's directed.


    "[Mercenaries are not allowed to collect bounties set by them or their clan; you cannot place a bounty on a player to give yourself an excuse to attack them]"


    That copy means that PX can put bounties on chars NO PX or pirate/police allies can collect, pirates/police especially as they can only wear 1 RP license at once. Using other ways to 'avoid' this rule are also noticed, and admonished if reported, or noticed by a GR.


    That rule is a part I also copied few days ago for the same reason of bounties.



    Also, if SA wear other license than police, make a timestamp, a screenshot and report it to an active GR on the forum except your own clan's (even it shouldn't matter, most GRs are new in being 'objective' ), or to all GR team, and done.
    If you flame on the forums continuously on a mistake or rule breaking somebody did, you're not better than them. As you're just giving other readers ideas... and by flaming too much, yourself break some rules.

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    Quote from Michael

    "[Mercenaries are not allowed to collect bounties set by them or their clan; you cannot place a bounty on a player to give yourself an excuse to attack them]"


    That copy means that PX can put bounties on chars NO PX or pirate/police allies can collect, pirates/police especially as they can only wear 1 RP license at once.


    No Michael, not totally correct. That means - PX are allowed to set even bounties on themselves but are not allowed to collect these bounties by themselves. Thats the difference! Otherwise they simply could do a money transfer from char to char.


    So maybe you should also read what is written and not interpret stuff around?!

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    OP has the force, i thought? ;D

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    Quote

    That copy means that PX can put bounties on chars NO PX can collect


    Huor, read it better and see it's the same with what you said but in short version: (just took police/pirate out)


    Quote

    PX are allowed to set even bounties on themselves but are not allowed to collect these bounties by themselves.



    Notice it now ? I just put PX instead of "themselves"....


    And the second part of my sentence, ""or pirate/police allies can collect, pirates/police especially as they can only wear 1 RP license at once.""
    that part because it's been noticed sudden RP change on some freelancers for collecting certain bounties... but wearing 2 RP licenses at once you know it's not allowed, as 1 is for ASF/CSF. ^^

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    Huor


    Thanx mate. Help is always welcomed in this snakepit.


    Michael


    If you can't understand English I suggest you spend some time improving your language skills. Anyone can post a bounty but only mercs can collect on the bounty. Mercs that post a bounty cannot collect the bounty that they themselves comissioned (in our contract we specified that only non-px entities can collect on it)...so what's the problem?


    With the licenses...I don't remember any px mounting more than one RP license (ie. cop, pirate, smuggler) but I do remember a recent "warrant"...

    Voila, in view a humble vaudevillian veteran...cast vicariously as both victim and villain, by the vicissitudes of fate...

    Ok to sum up a bit to faaby and seqan : StephanoV and I only wish to establish clear boundaries to where "calling for a police ally" will not be over treated and limited in its repercussions... The warrant limits kills, time and persons allowed to kill to prevent any abuse. It is indeed nothing new and is the same thing as calling for Mike to come help defend Omega-3 when a pirate attacks but you gotta admit its way more well presented and mostly there for more cops to see and respond.


    StephanoV :


    First comment is on your jurisdiction idea : i won't change anything because even if we split space in 5 police areas, the police have defense agreements deals to act in each other's turf in case they are absent... If we restrict the area of action of the police to a precise territory that may leave other territories open for more crime, not only because a clan doesnt play well its RP, but because this can be greatly affected by clan numbers and play time /timezones which should not reflect too much in the gameplay. Perhaps if the day comes CF clans become big enough (30-40) active members everyday from all over the globe but until now even largest police clans couldnt ensure their territory is covered properly and they cannot even grow too much due to other issues (focused on somethinn else than expanding, you know what i mean). That's very cool RP and diplomatic stuff to play with but practically i think CF clan are not ready to split the map and mind only their area of space. Not to mentio nthat many LOVE to fly around the whole place...


    Second comment is about the jail idea : How can we force a player to remain jailed ? If the police player quits for lunch does it mean the pirate can run away ? we cant require from players to play 24/7 to make their rule applied. Unless FLHook has a nice trick in its hat to handle this, i doubt we could trust players to sit nicely out for one day... And i don't like much the idea of issuing warrants over warrants for escaping prisonners.... A good "fine or die" is quick and worked for 6 years... we may have advantage to focus our efforts elsewhere than this point...


    That said, shoot me your proposal by PM. Since we are the only two who discuss it without referrig to SA/PX current conflict, it's better if we talk about this in private and propose a final draft to OP and clan leaders when its ready.


    @All who complained here and bickered about COP/MERCS roles, that's not the place. We are trying to set the ground rules here, not fighting on who is right and wrong in RP... :thumbdown:


    StephanoV : I'm glad we can discuss this like gentelemen without reffering to the conflict opposing us outside this thread. Let's both keep it like that it's awesome ! :thumbup:

    The Jail idea has been tried too and it doesnt go anywhere.

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    @Steph, it looks stupid repeating the same for 4th time with different words. But adding a fake thing to it:


    Quote

    I don't remember any px mounting more than one RP license (ie. cop, pirate, smuggler) but I do remember a recent "warrant"...


    May you tell where somebody ( or me) said that PX wear 2 rp licenses ? The problem told was NOT wearing the CSF license in an ASF / CSF battle.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    @ Arrow


    We can always talk things out the civilised way, mate. The important thing is that you are open to it an we are too, despite other interventions...


    1. About the jurisdiction thing:


    - Space does not neccessarily need to be split even in 5...This jurisdiction thing, this warrant thing and police alliance stuff is meant to work as a whole so:
    RP can be greatly enhanced by:


    - boosting up police power (while assuring no abuse is made)
    - contributing to balancing the server by setting better conditions for lawless clans to emerge (we do have a shortage of unlawful entities...)
    - giving police clans the ability to actively contribute to balancing the server by chosing to enforce harsher punishments on criminals or not (this + their boosted power and freedom to engage in combat)


    with this in mind, jurisdiction can happen this way:
    - each police clan choses their system + let's say other 10
    - the accent is put on individual jurisdiction areas (that can be patroled by either just the owning clan or other police clans as a result of an understanding) or joint jurisdictiona areas (like for instance some areas of Altair)
    This way the RP will be enhanced because it's more territory to patrol and enforce the law in. (Greater liberty to engage and to maintain a KoS in the "owned" systems) (ie. if you can maintain a KoS for maximum a week, in the "owned" systems you could maintain it for max. 2 or 3 or even a month. The only thing is that the systems would have to form a general area, a cluster...a wider, compact area instead of a multi coloured puzzle...


    2. About the Jail thing and the interdependent relationship with Jurisdiction:


    There could be a sanction for "breaking out", as I said before. In remember that there is some tool that records the presence of players in a system, like the one that shows you who is online and in what system he/she is. Police could use that to see if the player exited the system by choosing a "jail" in a dead-end system and looking in its neighbouring system for any activity of that player.
    If the criminal breaks out and does not serve a full sentence, then another warrant could be issued for twice or thrice the period of time of the original one, a bigger fine also imposed OR an even more lenghtier KoS -maybe even a month- (to be enforced only within the individual jurisdiction systems of that Police Clan, not the Joint Jurisdiction areas). In the event that 2 police clans have an uderstanding to let each other "hunt criminals" within their Individual Jurisdiction Systems then it should be A-OK and the area within which you could KoS the criminal gets bigger.
    This does not mean that people cannot RP normally (but within certain limits as KoS and engagement goes) in the Joint Jurisdiction areas...


    We can make this into something very BIG and very beneficial for our environment :D.

    Voila, in view a humble vaudevillian veteran...cast vicariously as both victim and villain, by the vicissitudes of fate...