Posts by StephanoV

Michael, I'm sorry...but a friend of mine asked me to review the translation and alot of its parts are uncomprehensible in Romanian...this means both morphology mistakes and synthax ones. On top of that, this is not the translation of the rules but more like your perception of the rules.

Example:

For instance:
NO CHEATING
Cheating is defined as manipulating the game to gain an unfair advantage over other players. This includes the use of map bugs and exploits, scripts and macros.

should have been translated as:

NU SE TRISEAZA
A trisa se defineste ca manipularea jocului in scopul castigarii unui avantaj neechitabil asupra altor jucatori. Aceasta include folosirea unor bug-uri de harti, a "exploit"-urilor, a "script"-urilor si "macro"-urilor.

-----------------------------------------------------
He Translated it like (fragment)

Trucuri

Noi înţelegem "trişarea" ca si manipularea codului de joc pentru a obţine avantaje incorecte faţă de alţi jucatori. Aceasta include utilizarea de "bugs" şi trucuri de hărţi. Dacă un jucător este prins cu trucuri pe server, sau dacă se detecteaza pe calculator oricare manipulare, vor fi expulzaţi imediat şi fără avertizare... (there is more...)

Which is translated in English something like:

Tricks

We understand cheating as the manipulation of the game code in order to obtain unfair advantages towards other players. This includes utilizing bugs and map tricks. If a player is caught with tricks on the server or if any manipulation is detected on the computer, they will be immediately expelled without warning. (He goes on by saying stuff about the Server Police retaining its right to investigate the hard disk of players and other stuff...)

Fragment-----

DO NOT BE OFFENSIVE
Do not offend other players in any way. This includes (but is not restricted to) character/forum names and comments made in game, on the forum or through any messaging facilities. This includes racist, sexist, homophobic comments and swearing.

Should have been translated like:

FARA OFENSE
Nu ofensati ceilalti jucatori in nici un fel. Ofensele includ (dar nu sunt limitate la) nume de forum/personaj si comentarii facute in joc sau in forum sau prin intermediul orcaror interactiuni prin mesaje. Acestea includ comentariile rasiste, sexiste, homofobice atat cat si injuraturile.

he translated it like
NUME JIGNITOARE
Singurul motiv pentru care cineva ar vrea să utilizeze un nume este ofensiv, este pentru a jigni sau ofensa alţi jucători, şi acest tip de comportament nu este permis pe acest server. În consecinţă, numele jignitoare sau care sunt destinate să deranjeze sau distragă atenţia altor jucători nu vor fi tolerate. Orice jucător care foloseşte un nume care este considerat ca fiind inadecvat vor fi eliminate de pe server şi luate accesul la server.

which is translated in English:

Offending names
The only motive for which somebody would want to use a name is offensive, is for offending or affronting other players and this type of behavior is not permitted on this server. Consequently, offending names or those which are destined to cause an inconvenience or to distract the attention of other players will not be tolerated. Any player that uses a name which is considered as being inadequate will be eliminated off the server and "taken acces to server".

The above text actually makes more sense in English than it does in Romanian...
---------------------------

My opinion:

He did a bad job at translating the text, adding and substracting alot but he does not neccessarily have bad intentions because he tries (without succeding) to transmit a message that is close to the original message...All in all, proably the man is not so good with translating stuff, as he doesn't translate stuff properly and moreover, his Romanian is well...not so good (probably because he spent most of his life outside Romania).

My conclusion: Either ask somebody else to do it or just use Google Translator. GT would at least keep the text in its original logically intended form and would retain sort of the same coherence in Romanian because otherwize Romanian people that do not speak English or speak a bad English or can't read English --will not understand the Romanian version of the rules--.

P.S. My interest in this is 0 as I've been asked by a friend of mine to review the translation and post my conclusions here, so I am not active at SWAT, CF or PX for that matter at the present.
P.P.S. I haven't been playing CF for 2 years now, so I don't have any interest in making Michael look bad...but this is my objective opinion on the matter.

@ Verbose

Yes, or even more simple...make RP the "rule" and if non-RP interactions "the exception" and place "orp" (out of rp) or "ooc" (out of character) before the message so that people can know when you are out of rp.

of course, ALL my suggestions relating to MERCS imply a CONTRACT...otherwise they wouldn't be MERCS in the first place...

@ Az

That's exactly how I feel too.

@ Gunny

So then I am to understand that you liked my suggestion about police granting some smugglers the privilege of dealing in BMG under the obligation of fulfilling some conditions and the payment of a %(i.e. 30% as VAT^^) of the goods (which would be determined by the cops)...I am saying this because otherwize we'd just be mixing the smuggler rp with the others again (like it is now with every RP there is out there). Also, for the time being mercs (because they are in high numbers) can help the police by the aforementioned actions or more (I'm just saying: give the mercs more options so that your needs are satisfied but be careful to not give to much authority because you -Pirate and Police- are the main "users of force"). So here are 2 solutions to your 2 problems.

@Abras
Neutrality of mercs and smugglers should be an option not an obligation. Nobody would be in the position to "forbid" merc clans to have alliances but for instance if a merc clan has an understanding with a pirate clan, it would never gain an alliance with a police one (as the natural order of things).

Quote

merc is allied with cop >> cop gets attacked >> merc attacks the attacker from the cop (therefor does his job) >> attacker does NOT have any reasons to complain about anything.

normally, the attacker should have the right to either attack the merc or not. This could lead to reputation loss in there was 24/7 RP. Which would be very good because as things are now and we've seen it in countless examples, there's alot of mixing RP with RL. 24/7 RP would take the RL out of it entirely, as Az suggested. I think that it would be a great thing for the server but it would still need some tweaks so that RL abuse would not be disguised in RP.

Again, I am not talking here about rules or stuff like that, only general guidelines, informal behavior, etc.

Well, I wasn't necessarily reffering to changing the mercenary RP per-se...I think that the problem is real and we will see the consequences in the months to come and if we don't do anything now, it will be harder for balance to regain itself.

Sure, there would be alot of problems that would need tackling on this one but mercenary and smuggler RP are both no polarized roleplays, in my opinion. Smuggler is illegally centered but if only smugglers would be allowed to sell and buy BMG then they'd be a very important source of outcome and some of the police could benefit from a smuggler clan or freelancer that would only agree to smuggle one or two kind of commodities, under the conditions and supervision of the cop clan. This way police do not lose the financial advantage. Pirates could do the same, providing safe-heaven and maybe even helping in acquiring the merchandise (from smugglers that help police for example).

Mercenaries are neutral by default but they could, for example:

LAWFUL
- make regular patrols and take screens of people carrying BMG (helping police to make their "warrant list") without actually engaging the "criminals"
- blockade some systems under contract for a predetermined amount of time (i.e. maximum an hour)
- restrict access for some persons (on the warrant list) to some systems for a predetermined amount of time (i.e. access to System X, Z or Y where Bmg is know to be selling for one day)
- system defense

LAWLESS
- contracts on police an police-affiliated people
- secure a system (i.e. system J), making it a temporary safe heaven along a BMG trade route for a day
- provide permanent safe heaven to pirates in their home systems
- provide transport for goods that would remain after the destruction of a target

->-> These are just possibilities of RP, not meant to be enforced by some rule or the other. This can be used informally as an exercise of imagination. Lawless and Lawful are just some terms that would designate the polarity of a merc or smuggler clan and not a "technical term". I'm just saying that (if one acknowledges that there is a problem), almost all things can be resolved through an exercise of the imagination.

Regarding a possible problem in CF balance, reffering to RP factions:

Problem: Lately there have been more clans that have adopted the "mercenary" RP and there could be problems in the balance between mercenaries, police and pirates.

Possible solution: Without any clan having to switch their RP, certain mercenary clans could assume the LAWFUL status and enter in alliances or understandings with police clans and do police related work [OR with pirates and do pirate-related work]. This however would have to be be ballanced in its own turn as to avert any possible RP abuse.

As this could be a real problem in the future (if it isn't already), please feel free to also propose solutions along your critical comments (if you have any).

Thank you,
Stephanov

woooo, woooo....I just made a suggestion. I was not reffering to the trade routes alone. That wasn't the point. The point is smuggling. Usually there is a balance between the "Smuggling goods" and the legal goods. Whilst the legal goods are easier to trade and profit is low, the illegal ones are harder to trade but the profit is high. Depending on request and offer, the illegal goods can be made harder to trade and the legal ones easier in order to balance stuff out.

This can be done in a whole range of ways, from what Spiky suggested (making battleships vulnerable to cds -as it would be only normal-) to increasing cargo size for trains and reducing speed, etc, etc, etc...thusly increasing the risk of smuggling while the values remain untouched.

About the license stuff: I'm sorry if I don't have the time to play as much as I would like or to go through every piece of information on the forum. Last I knew about this, if I remember correctly, Haegar was going over the problem to see if it can be done. Nevermind, there's more ways of restricting BMG trade than this.

Did I say anything about balancing trade routes by hand? Also, did you read the last part of what I wrote: "Despite these observations, I am not "demanding" anything, only pointing out what I observed and by doing so express my respect and gratitude for the existence of CF in the first place."

About elusive, he reffers to playing the game. that's just about the only action available (I'm saying this as a PX representative).

well, why not fix the licenses too then? By restricting BMG trade to a smuggler's license you solve all the problems regarding this area.

To be honest, I think that trading in Bships is unbalancing the mod in the first place. Battleships are for fighting not trading...but don't expect people to do this by themselves because people adapt, that's what we've been doing for the past 40.000 years (or more) so that in the end we could play CF and post on forums^^.

It seems to me that the whole economy thing is somewhat unbalanced...I bet that there is an economist or two among the ranks of the players sow why not ask them to analyse the CF economic model and maybe put in suggestions on what needs to be done in this regard. Following their conclusions, we can set goals as to what has to be changed and chose the means to do it.

P.S. Although I agree with Elusive on the part where changes are demanded and implemented (right away) on some aspects of the game, while other aspects (reported and debated, etc) remain unresolved and ignored; I have to agree with Spiky on the fact that the BS is now an "ubership" and for the sake of balance, no such thing must exist. Also, I understand that there is a Persephone/Lagg missile tracking issue...Despite these observations, I am not "demanding" anything, only pointing out what I observed and by doing so express my respect and gratitude for the existence of CF in the first place.

@ Diablo

lol, interesting point of view^^.

Quote from Diablo

a big part of being a role player on this server (especially being a pirate) is being respected in some way by other players... doesn't specifically have to be fighting skills

It can be IT&C skills as well^^.

out of respect for this thread (and in order to avoid spontaneous combustion) I will not answer Verbose (therefore you have a pm dude)

Greetings to Gunny and Michael

Well, despite the fact that you two guys decided to de-tag we hope that in the future we will see the CFPD shield once again. We hope that after the "mission" will be over and the shadowy, mysterious and evil people that orchestrated it (maybe ZE GERMANS did it) will find better things to do, we hope that in this situation we will once again find parking tickets on our windshields.

Best wishes,
Stephanov

good luck with this, I don't have time to follow these kind of discussions anymore.

P.S. And sorry for interrupting, since solving a problem is obviously not the objective of this discussion.

@ Husker

Quote from Husker

Actually exists...For me the honor to respect those rules.

Ban, delete char or ID ... for offenders and provocateurs. I think the only way to increase the number of players on the server.

First of all, you are not the only one playing CF. Secondly, taking in account that you are not perfect and that you cannot predict the future, one can definitely say that chances are that you too in the future (regardless of honor and stuff) would be put in a situation in which you would have to "cheat" (example: the FOV thing. many people that didn't want to use it had to chose between losing 100% of pvps or using the stuff to maintain ballance). So the "I know what is right" attitude is from these points of view, highly distructive to the community. So no, it doesn't exist and please read what I wrote again if it is not clear enough. There must be a clearly written source of information that everybody can see, consult at any time and that has to be anything but the abstract ideas in one's head.

Secondly, banning deleting char or ID are not the only tools at one's disposal. Of course, finding additional tools would require an exercise of imagination and as the majority of people around here are concerned, I don't see why this would be a great task since we all posess a normal intelect.

About offenders and provocateurs: In the case of an offender, there is the tough requirement of providing proof and having a clear set of rules that would have to be applied (which lacks now). Providing that it is already a challenge nowdays to be able to provide proof and be able to enforce a just and lawful punishment on known and notorious offenders (because in part of the vague rules and lack of control and supervision organisms)...how do you plan on dealing with "provocateurs"? By applying your personal "moral code of conduct" and launching a witch hunt that would end up in a massive de-population of CF?

JURRY RIGGING JUSTICE IS NO JUSTICE AT ALL. If you want justice, it has to be managed and applied through a transparent system that would represent the majority of CF players and still be able to dynamically perform its functions.

The post is generally a good one, as Crysis pointed out but unfortunately, at least in the long run it won't make any difference at all. Also, in the long run there is a high possibility that alot of people would act against what Gunny said here (because one cannot predict the future and at the same time nobody is perfect as perfection is something restricted to divinity). These principles have to be enforced. That means that there would have to exist:

- A formal CF Community (which exists now)

- A set of rules and principles that should act somewhat like a constitution, meaning that they cannot be changed no matter what (does not exist)

- A clear and appliable set of rules and punishments which can change in time (does not exist)

- A commission made out of clan and freelancer representatives that would have the power to add, substract or modify existing rules and punishments as well as exercising control and supervision on the people applying the rules and punishments (does not exist)

- A different group of people made out of clan and freelancer representatives that would apply these rules and punishments (does not exist)

Without these tools there would be an eternal, pointless "crusade" against the wicked. One that would resemble the Don Quixote vs. The Windmills battle.

P.S About the comuniquees: If you don't want to engage in clan diplomatic RP then don't but don't ruin it for the rest just because you don't like it. On the other hand, it's good that there's so many dimplomatic comuniquees because that means that people are still talking instead of going at each other's guts. Silence is a bigger problem than communicating in the regard.

Quote

that's it... you can't stop it can you ?

StephanoV : posting names and proof publicly is against the forum rules (no public complaints). Not wise to invite ppl to do so.
Gunny & SHS : take it in space, in PMs or in RL if you got money for airplane tickets...

I said that complaints should be forwarded to a GR and should contain all the information needed for the construction of a detailed "picture" of an incident. The GR could then investigate (Ask around) and post it in a database which could be publicly viewed but without any written access. You could then ban public complaints like these alltogether but you need a system that would favour objectivity to subjectivity and that would actually see things done with a minimum risk for error.

You can close all the threads in the world but unfortunetely it will not solve the problem, just hide it under the rug like it's been done 1000 times and will continue to be done 100000 times more.

Nothing has been changed or improved by what has recently happened and the tensions still exist and are maybe even more intense.

@ Gunny

First, I am not "anti Gunny". Unlike you, I do not have the "anti-something" concept in my vocabulary. I criticise your actions not your person because that does not concern me. I criticise you openly because our interractions are mostly on the forum, so there's no secret or conspiracy about it.

Secondly...if shs did something wrong, why don't you file in a complaint with a GR in the manner I proposed or in whatever form you like? Tomorrow, if SHS does it again you fill in another one (it can only take about 30 seconds) and then again and again (if no screens at leas a witness or 2 would be ok). This way, after one week or so, time in which the GR pms the offender to stop the bs, when the Gr's desk has a nice pile of 30 complaints or so, action can be taken against the repeated offender. Offender learns his place and most important, he has "a record" that can be consulted and if he gets in another situation in which he breaks the rulles, the GRs can know by looking at his record, that he is doing it for the 100000 time.

If he does not break the rules then either lobby for additional rules or continue RP-ing on it.

It works for the justice system, why can't it work for CF?

Thirdly, I am not a "true lawyer". Our justice systems are very different so you wouldn't know how the Romanian lawyer "type" behaves (that is to say, worse than their American counterparts).

so Ta' Ta' yourself

@ Bond

Mr. Bond, where did I say that SHS was right and that there should be no consequences? Nowhere.

I only said that if we are going to punish someone for something we better do it in an orderly fashion, in a well-thought system, not with torches and pitchforks in the hand.

@ All

There is a method to this madness and there are tools that everybody can use to avoid this kind of public flailing in which nothing is resolved. Punishment, if administered has to be administered through a well- though system with failsafes so that it will not be the work of a blood thirsty mob but an objective process.

I said what I wanted to say on the matter, I even provided you with a "complaint form" but I cannot take the decision of properly reporting incidents for you. From my point of view, if you chose intrigue and chaos over order and empathy, you really deserve the filth you are swimming in right now.

P.S Every justice system in the world makes judicial mistakes. The real trick is to maintain the punishment innocents to the absolute minimum and that can only be done with access to verifiable information (be it from the incident itself or from a database with the offender's history).

@ Huor...I'm afraid that you've got thing very wrong, that is not my message at all.

I know you trust your eyes and Gunny trusts his but why don't you help the rest of us by naming WHO you've seen reloading in battle so that we may build up a database of such stuff SO that we don't neccessarily have to have this conversation in the future? <- This is the message. What's not clear?

You want to make a complaint? Very simple:
_________________________________________
Name of offender(s): X, Y, Z
Date: XX.XX.XXXX
Name of witness/person that took the screen: H
Attachements: pic 1, pic 2, pic 3

Description:

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
(Buffalo Springfield - For What it's Worth)

___________________________________________
-> Send it to a GR that will put the complaints in a database. Then we can see who's got 20 suicide complaints, 100 batt/bot complaints and so on and so forth and actually see if things are going for better or for worse and what to do about it.

Is it that hard? It's not about Gunny, it's about things being more orderly and done properly instead of the mess we're all soaking in. There is at least one solution to every problem but the real question is if one wants to get out of the shit hole and take a shower or crawl even more into it, to sum it up in a metaphor.

@ Gunny

I did not say that you are the "fall guy" for the server problems. I did say, however that in my opinion (and sadly it's not only mine) you are one factor of the problem. EDIT: Among others, because there's a huge range of problems some occuring naturally within a community of people, some artificially as a result of the first.

Given the fact that you blindly post tons of information regarding misconduct without mentioning NAMES and without any thread of proof, there is a very big chance that the persons behaving in this manner are not identified and their actions not recorded, leaving them room for future misconducts.

Information that cannot be veryfied will be eventually lost, misinterpreted (by chance or purpously) and it will become useless after it will stop fueling the "flames" (which can be a probable reason for preffering to relay information inacurately). Therefore, information that cannot be verified and managed can and 99.9% of the time will be unreliable, distorted or down-right false.

Introducing this kind of information to a community and presenting it as true and accurate is by all definitions, informational intoxication.

@ Op

I think that we are both right. If Gunny wanted to change things for the best and not stirr up a hornet's nest with accusations he would have done it in a more elegant fashion, without distributing false rumors and accusations, like a republican on an election day^^.

However you look at it, this is not beneficial because it draws more on people's quarrels and differences than it draws on the passion we all share.

P.S @ Gunny -> You've been throwing yourself under busses since I got here 2 years ago and probably loooong before that so I think that there's no need for that statement.
P.P.S @ Gunny -> If you were a player you would have pm-ed SHS with this information or made a neutral post without acusations and all, asking the moderator to close it shortly afterwards. The purpouse is to attract attention on a subject and not comment on it and rebuke people, starting a flame that leads nowhere.

@ HUOR

Proof of names. Something to go on besides "Someone does that. Someone does this." and leaving room for interpretations. Like pointing a finger at us for every miserable thing that's been going on here. Proof of suicides if claimed, proof of anything that can be prooven. I've been pretty explicit...

@ Gunny

Please go on and read what I wrote again. I am not saying that you speak 100% falsely only that you intoxicate people with information if you do not use proof of what you claim or, more importantly WHO you claim to have transgressed, leaving a wide open door for misinterpretation and pointing a silent finger at us, because that's where it all leads to these days. Try playing fair for a chance and do things the right way, like having screens with what you claim or at least NAMING those you accuse. Or at least stay silent if you don't know WHO you accuse and save it for later when you will have all the information you need.

@ Op

I'm afraid you are mistaken, this thread has a very exact purpose. That of Gunny picking on people that do not share his unilateral views and desperately trying to reconquest some of that legitimity that he lost with tons of posts about accusations and mischief without posting a single thread of evidence.

SHS

It may not mean much but as I see it, you are not right. If you know that there is this informal rule then the good thing would be to obey it, as others do. No reload means no reload all the same in a 1x1 and in a 1x100. The natural consequence of not obeying a place's "customs" is atracting the anger of people. No server or rp rules have been broken but on the other hand people are not happy about this. My advice would be to keep this in mind for the future and obey the rules that everybody obeys, spoken or unspoken. If you see others breaking them, make a screen if possible or try to gather proof and let us record these kind of incidents and make a database out of it, instead of a 10000 terra database of flames, bickering and unjustly accusing others.

@ Gunny

Where did the screens for what you are saying go? Oh, nowhere...because there aren't any. You keep posting these kind of impersonal, proofless complaints about "things in general" that serve you most probably as a means to project some things that some people do on other people (like us) that you do not like, whitout saying anything explicitly (because you'd make a fool of yourself), of course.

Next time you post something please make sure that you have actual proof. Nexti time you "sacrifice" yourself for the communities' sake and voice out the "communities" complaints and penuries please make sure that the people that you "receive" complaints from send you screens too. Otherwize, don't bother to post things even if they are very likely to be true and above all, DON'T leave it that impersonal because people might suspect innocent people and the guilty ones get away with doing it day after day (because there is no proof of their offense and it is wrong to punish people without proof).

It's all about what you want to achieve with these complaints or indirect complaints, if you will.

One motive would be to optimise the community and help enforce the rules and contribute to a better environment we all could benefit from, ensuring that correct information reaches the decision factors and the community (correctness of information can be backed by proof).

The second motive would be to intoxicate the community with information that is either partially true (one part being true one misleading) or false information (not backed by proof) in order to achieve one's own, personal purposses that conflict with those of the community.

In the future, especially concerning sensitive matters, please look up these two reasons and decide for yourself if what you want to post is beneficial to the community or not.

Thank you for you time and patience.