Your turn

StephanoV: I do strike you as an intelligent person, and no, that wasn't a question (at least not one to be answered)

...you didn't catch my drift...but whatever, it's not important anyway. Let's stick to the subject at hand. please tell me if I should post a "conquest model" in the LB.

All the Council members are Clan Leaders ? (wasn't sure)

Anyways, yes,, include the 'conquest model' to there... if it's teh one agreed here without touchign the 'rented' systems... (?)

Maybe it´s more productive to place it here mate, dunno. Ppl. like Huor and Diablo who seems to be very interested in this part wouldn´t be able to participate and i wouldn´t think that its secret, except you are touching something i do not have in mind yet.

I already posted in the Leaders' Board but I will double-post here too.

The important decisions and voting though would be best to be made in the Leader Board.

This is the Conquest Model that I propose for debating:

Quoted
Territories->

1. Rented systems have the same definition as stated in the CF Rules.

2. Sysems of Influence -> Systems which are conquered but do not share the same particularities as the clan rented systems. The conquering clan's authority within those systems is limited to:

a. Enforcing a monopoly over any BMG that can be bought at the stations within that territory. The area of influence for this monopoly is that particular system and/or all of the clan's Systems of Influence, extending as far as one system away into neutral territory. If they chose to enforce their rules on another clan's territory though, they do it at their own expense.

b. Controling the access with the benefit of granting access rights or not to any other areas within the Systems of Influence BESIDES areas where there are Trade Lanes and Jump Gates, those being PUBLIC AREAS. (docking at basses can be restricted or not by the owning clan with the exceptions that are present in the CF rules -ie noobies-)

c. Setting any RP rules that the clan sees fit for all of their Systems of Influence (can be the same as their Rented System or different) AS LONG AS THEY RESPECT THE CF RULES and are stimulating RP. (I.E->granting authorisation for a certain BMG that represents a password and when a trader is scanned and asked for tax he would say the password and leave without paying anything)

Publicity->

3. Any conquering process should be properly advertised at SWAT 1 full week before it takes place (so that people could make time or know when it will be) and if nobody opposes it (with a post in that topic) until the attack can begin (ie. the intent to attck is posted on the 20th at 10:00am => if on the 27th at 10:00am there is no post containing the intent to defend, then the system is considered as conquered).

4. The conquering process could take place under the ASF/CSF ROE, with the noted exception that everything transformes from "one system" to "one base" or "empty system" AND that if the attacking clan does not "own" any base within that system the attack would have to "spawn" from one system away and/or within a system from an attacker "owned" base situated at least 2 sectors away (between the conquering and attacking basses there should be at least 2 sectors NOT counting the sector that the basses are located in)

5. After a week has passed since the SWAT post relating to the conquering of a base AND the defenders have posted their intention to defend, the attackers should warn any ONE member of the opposing side via in game chat, taking a screenie with a time stamp. If nobody comes to defend the base within 15 minutes, then the attackers have a bonus equal to their numbers. This bonus can be earned in the same way (message with a timestamp while within the claimed system) once every 24 hours (more or less) since their first screenie with a time stamp, until the week ends. NOTE: There has to be at least one defender online in order for this to happen.
a. If the defender exits the base or system after he/she has died a number of times inferior to the number of attackers, then the present rule applies, ADDING the number of attackers to the registered kills. (no shortcuts to victory)

Battle->

6. Following the ASF/CSF ROE for one full week from the moment the attack begins. Attackers should mount (open for debate) ASF licenses and defenders CSF (or the other way around...or if the clans are of different RP faction maybe we could track them down in that system and get a score -> people employed by att/or def should wear the same licenses as their allies do).
a. The DEFENDERS should be DOCKED in the sytem/base that they are defending, in a location within the base's vicinity (2 to 4 sectors in every direction) OR in the nearest possible location when defending an empty system.

7. Once a base or system (with no basses) is officially "conquered" then all the defenders must exit that system or vicinity of that base (2 sectors in each direction) as soon as possible and MUST not engage the members of the victorious clan until they are out of the system or vicinity of the base AND UNLESS 72 hours have passed since the system was officially "conquered".
a. A system is "OFFICIALLY conquered" the moment a post is made on SWAT in the same thread as the post for attack. The official conquering post must contain: a link to a screensaver containing the autoreferee score which indicates the winner OR
b. In case the system or base is not defended, a screensaver with a timestamp took at the moment the system can be attacked AND an identical screen with time stamp 15 minutes later IF a member of the defending clan is online. (the objective is to determine the lack of intent to defend, if the member of the defending clan expresses the lack of intention to defend in writing then one screen with this and a time stamp is of BUT it must be explicit)
c. A clan LEADER can CONTEST the conquering of one system within the Leader's board PROVIDING that he/she can prove their accusations with screenies OR if the ATTACKING CLAN did not produce any screens needed to validate the conquest (autoreferee screens, lack of intent to defend screens, etc).

8. A person will be chosen on behalf of each side involved in the conflict that will be in command of the whole operation (att or def) and will be accountable for any abuse (unless they prove that the person that committed the abuse did it on pourpuse and of bad intent). Of course, that person can delegate its responsability to other members, case in which they must provide proof by posting a screensaver with a pm or in-game chat from which should result the transfer of power BUT this will be required JUST IN CASE THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS.

Limits->

9. The "rented" clan system cannot be conquered. (open for debate, like everything else)

10. A clan can claim a system that is situated at a maximum 1 systems away from territory it already owns (1 system should exist between the attacking clan's territory AND the targeted system) be it rented system or conquered territory.

11. A clan can only attack 2 basses or empty systems at one time or one of each. On the other hand, if a clan is attacked by more clans it would have to defend each territory attacked by all clans.

This is what I came up with. Please READ ALL OF IT, ask me where it is not clear AND state the section number or article as you comment on it and please let us proceed IN ORDER, from ARTICLE 1 to 11. Once we clear one we DO NOT DISCUSS it any further UNLESS it's absolutely neccessary.

Thank you.

Just in case nobody was thinking of this, what if we would place this RP to the Coalition Space ? Clans can be "given" a station over there - and i am sure that it would populate the areas greatly.

Ok, i start. Paragraph 2a is the one i am struggling with - especially the last sentence:

Quote from StephanoV

The area of influence for this monopoly is that particular system, all of the clan's Systems of Influence AND one system away from those IF that system is not owned by any other clan, if it does then they do it at their own risk.

-> huh what? I am not sure whether its my bad english or i am too dumb to understand, but i cant grasp what that should mean, i make it more clearly:

"all of the clan's Systems of Influence AND one system away from those IF that system is not owned by any other clan"

Could you please explain it more clearly? Thanks - anyway i have the feeling there is missing some words ;D

sorry, my bad choice of words...it should be like "The area of influence for this monopoly is that particular system and/or all of the clan's Systems of Influence, extending as far as one system away into neutral territory. If they chose to enforce their rules on another clan's territory though, they do it at their own expense."

P.S I edited it.

ok that means they can enforce that monopoly at all of their conquered systems - seems logic ;D This whole conquering of systems is only valid until 1 system away from neutral space (what ever that may be then). If clans choose to enforce this also in another ones clan system then at their own expense (but weren't clans systems supposed to be untouchable for conquering?). Sorry if i am so fussy - just want to prevent someone misunderstand a thing and then quarrels about. And at the moment i request things that are not clear for me - although i could be quite as i am not in a clan - so it should care me tho.

The limitatiosn are great, as they look now.

Even I'd see possible points to add (counting views from all possible points), counting them like positive ideas, to not have issues later:

Quote from StephanoV

Publicity->

3. Any conquering process should be properly advertised at SWAT 1 full week before it takes place (so that people could make time or know when it will be) and if nobody opposes it (with a post in that topic) until the attack can begin (ie. the intent to attck is posted on the 20th at 10:00am => if on the 27th at 10:00am there is no post containing the intent to defend, then the system is considered as conquered).

In the case the attacked system is owned by a clan, or lets see, an empty system they got cus it was neutral, but cannot defend from a certain attack at that moment (timezones opposed, or issues with members, etc), their leader or representant can post on that thead opposing only verbally to the attack ? Or only posting "Yes, we will be there " is the only thing to say.

Quote from StephanoV

6
a. The DEFENDERS should be DOCKED in the sytem/base that they are defending, in a location within the base's vicinity (2 to 4 sectors in every direction) OR in the nearest possible location when defending an empty system.

7. Once a base or system (with no basses) is officially "conquered" then all the defenders must exit that system or vicinity of that base (2 sectors in each direction) as soon as possible and MUST not engage the members of the victorious clan until they are out of the system or vicinity of the base AND UNLESS 72 hours have passed since the system was officially "conquered".

6a: If an attack starts, let's say a clan XX owns Sea Of Shadows (1 station) and clan YY is attacking, the defenders Can dock the Ice Palace, and the attackers can only dock in Colorado ?
Option 2: If the XX clan defends a bigger systems, with more stations (the system), like NY(even it's a neutral system as I hope as it's the newcomers one and server rules say no RP there) when XX only owns Manhattan, and the attackers YY can dock in the same system ? if so, they cant dock, for example at Newark, because it's in 2-4 sectors near, so they have to go to West Point military base for attacking, is it right ? Also in Case the XX clan owns more stations in that system, having no empty sectors not near of their station, the attackers will have to attack docking on another system outside ?

7. Plz add that the Victorious clan also Must NOT engage the members of the loser clan until they get out of the system (as it can happen that they keep having fun on dockrapping the remaining members not alloweing them to get out, which I felt as a bad experience in some situation), but once they are out, they can engage, for sure, if the loser team comes back, or just reporting to a GR.

Quote from StephanoV

Limits->

9. The "rented" clan system cannot be conquered. (open for debate, like everything else)

Never(, in any way, especially the not participating clans.)

@ Huor

It means that if I catch somebody docking or tresspassing without clearance or smuggling something without my approval as the owner of the monopoly I can chose to follow and terminate the target into one neutral system away from mine. IF I do this on another clan's territory and the "offender" is protected by that clan, I am taking the risk of deteriorating relations with that clan and entering an open conflict.

That's what it means...maybe I should of been more clear on the fact that pursuing and punishing into one neutral system was the point and not actually enforcing the monopoly...either way..."Smugglers" will originate in my system so => this is meant to let me pursue even out of my system, but I'd have to stop there...no need to pursue all over the galaxy.

Clan rented systems are untouchable. this related to neutral territory or Territory of Influence.

Michael

First of all, there are certain advantages that some people have and others don't. To name a few: numbers, coordination, equipment, etc.

This system is thought in such a way that the majority of the players can enjoy CF and Roleplay as well as the minority but within certain boundries.

There are some problems that would exist regardless of the concepts we use, to name a few:

A. Time difference, as you noted.
B. Lack of will to RP.
C. Small numbers.
D. Looking for quirks to take advantage of within the concept (finding exploits so to speak).

This model has been developed with all these in mind. I ask you this Michael: What happens when Clan A conquers 10 systems (including one that you want to conquer) and when you claim it and coordinate with your mates in an attack, then Clan A simply avoids you or you don't see any of their members online...or the clan has been inactive for some time, etc. => that system together with the rest becomes inconquerable which means in this case that these 10 systems are "out of the game", DEAD systems RP wize. So when chosing between CF RP that will surely attract new players and Clan ownership for a clan that does not use it or avoids RP...what do you chose (we're not talking about the rented system here, only about "conquered systems)?

Even in the situation that the attackers/defenders are in opposite time zones, it is impossible to not be able to meet online (even if it's a few players here and there) in a week's time.

art. 3
Yes, first and foremost it has to be known IF the clan wants to defend the territory...maybe it doesn't.

art. 6 and 7

6.a Yes, anywhere in Colorado. (seems only fair)

Option 2: Yes, you are right on the NY thing. There has to be some space between the oposing parties.
If the defending clan owns all of the basses within that system, then yes the attackers have to dock somewhere outside it.

Problem: One situation would be something like conquering NB, Essen. What happenes when you conquer Dortmund? This is a real problem, as you can't break the rules and attack from 2 meters away. One option would be to claim both and then those are your choices for the week.

@ All

I think that the best course of action would be for you to copy-paste the text, mark your questions on it (prefferably with some space between or in a different colour) and send it to me and I will post an answer to each and every one the problems indicated AND possibile solutions if more than one (like a quiz...with 1,2,3 or more variants from which clan leaders will vote). Just so that we save effort and coordinate, let's do it withing a time frame.

So, I expect your questions by pm to my adress here at SWAT until the 1st of October (this Friday). Then, I will read all and re-post the document tackling each and every problem in order, for every article.

Well, I finished my opinions

Those questions stated several possible situations, at the 'limits' of the text, now solved.

Too much words, too long posts, too many ideas...guys do u trade in game these days?If so, then u know what i am talking about.It's almost impossible to trade without some tools, except if u have all day long...and u have idea about monopoly? very LOL, but ok just in my opinion.

and now post scriptum

ps
i really do not want to discuss, how some players earned lvl 90 at few chars in 1.8 early January, so better do not ask me^^, because there is a chance to piss me, and to add F1 thingy at this list...for now^...not to mention other things which u call resourcefulness!!
So PLEASE...

Some of u really need to learn how to respect new players in every fuckin' possible way, and after that to discuss about improvements at the server, especially u guys who has many rights here.

OmG...how bizarre

@ Bond

I understand what you are saying...but unfortunately this is not the place to post it...In this post we are looking for solutions to problems not just to criticise...

@ everyone
P.S Please pm me with the any problem that you find in the concept AND at least one solution that you can think of, solution that would fit the 24/7 RP agenda.

I 2nd Steph.

The program seems quite compleete, I already said the possible issues that could be.

One more point: If a clan (as tehre are quite many) who couldn't defend their system at a certain time when they are getting attacked (you know, timezone, activity etc) and only have 1-3 defenders and the attackers are for example 10, could they call for support to their clan allies online members ?(if, who is online at that moment) ? Maybe giving them part of the beneficies or such.... as afterall the allied clans are allied for some reason

Also in the other way, if the attacker clan only has 1-3 online members then, and the defenders are 15 for example, could the attackers also call for support for online people ? at least getting more or less a similar number

Only 1 of the both sides would have the option to call for support, the outnubmered one, so we don't rlly get to a all clans vs all clans fight

well i guess that'S what diplomacy is for, mike...

from where is stand, both sides could call for allies to help them either conquer or defend...

BUT if we look at current alliances and treaties, it will mostly divide into two known factions : the ASF (BG, CFPD, SA, UR, IOC) and the CSF (PX, DC, SMG, FALLEN).... in short, we might be reinventing the wheel here...

Well, not really re-inventing the wheel...

Not only allies could come to the aid of one clan but also "paid help" => so resources start to play a key role in a clan's existance...

As for the resemblance to the ASF/CSF event...this is only because the ASF and CSF are forced alliances). The "Conquest Model" encourages the free forming and developing of inter-clan relations in a complex socio-political environment). For instance cops could enter a "truce" with a pirate clan (especially if we would need more pirates on the server and so we could let them gather resources and grow), or a "Pact of non-aggression" according to which Pirates do not tax on their territory and Cops do not engage unless otherwize engaged by the pirates.

so we could adapt the ASF/CSF with your current Conquest model and create a nice "polititcal RP". If we make evolve the concept to make clans able to change side and make diplomacy a little more dynamic, i have no problem with that ! And of course change the basic goal to dominate the other would be quite nice.

We could start with each clan, its system. With your nice conquest model. Clans that wish to expand their law (police) or their reign of terror (pirates) or their underground crime empire (smugglers) can. those (like SA) who would not find much interest in expanding territory (like we care abotu that :P) could just remain in their unconquerable system !

I start to love it now steph. but the conquest by base might not be possible to follow easily, at least the RRS is not made to count kills near a base but it does for a whole system....

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

it took some time to change the code of the portals mail system to allow to send html mails (good looking mails have much better effects)

Yes, it has and result is visible at the server, some of them are still disguised but at home again