Botts / Batts and reloading

new generation of suckers ;D

Yehaaaaa, a new thread arising from the ashes where we can talk about how nice the days once were
I have to admit what Gunny is stating. PvPs are just more fun if you dont need to watch your hull or shield all the time to trigger the happy reloading button if its needed. Not that the fights are over in a shorter time - you can have more of these fights also - what rises the fun level - mostly.

Ahhhhhhhh *dreaming* goooood old times

Bots and bats are useful in PvE but i would definitly move to BAN all reloading in PvP. You use them by msitake, you stop and let yourself be killed.

ppl suicing in Arena, i have no problem but you say some suicide during RP ??? that sucks bad... i don't think i have witnessed that yet but if i do it's gonna be duly screenshot and reported to a GR immediately...

I am thinking we have had a new wave a players starting to play CF recently (like within less than 6 monthes).
Those people may never had heard of what is called "common rules", and some bad examples may not have
convinced them to play "old school".

Thus ending up on the server with several different behavior "codes".
(basically: "old" honor code vs. use of "anything not clearly prohibited by rules" ?)

Result: Everyone is confused.

Mourning about old days will not get us anywhere though.

We as Mercs are fighting reloaders very often. We do not like it but we will not cry for new Rules.

The exsisting Rules are stating everything neccessary, afaik no claned pilots are reloading. If you have to fight a Freelancer who is reloading the "good old style" is taking yourself a few minutes while explaining that reloading in pvp is not well seen. You can´t demand something which is not written, but as long as only Freelancers are reloading there is no need to act imO, cause they still have disadvantages enough. My personal experience is, after you helped the Reloader to understand why we don´t do it in PvPs he will leave it.

@ Gunny

Where did the screens for what you are saying go? Oh, nowhere...because there aren't any. You keep posting these kind of impersonal, proofless complaints about "things in general" that serve you most probably as a means to project some things that some people do on other people (like us) that you do not like, whitout saying anything explicitly (because you'd make a fool of yourself), of course.

Next time you post something please make sure that you have actual proof. Nexti time you "sacrifice" yourself for the communities' sake and voice out the "communities" complaints and penuries please make sure that the people that you "receive" complaints from send you screens too. Otherwize, don't bother to post things even if they are very likely to be true and above all, DON'T leave it that impersonal because people might suspect innocent people and the guilty ones get away with doing it day after day (because there is no proof of their offense and it is wrong to punish people without proof).

It's all about what you want to achieve with these complaints or indirect complaints, if you will.

One motive would be to optimise the community and help enforce the rules and contribute to a better environment we all could benefit from, ensuring that correct information reaches the decision factors and the community (correctness of information can be backed by proof).

The second motive would be to intoxicate the community with information that is either partially true (one part being true one misleading) or false information (not backed by proof) in order to achieve one's own, personal purposses that conflict with those of the community.

In the future, especially concerning sensitive matters, please look up these two reasons and decide for yourself if what you want to post is beneficial to the community or not.

Thank you for you time and patience.

@Steph:
What screens G was talking about what you refer to? Could it be that you mixed up some topics?

Proof for what - reloading?
I witnessed it - yes its happening. Proof - no screens but my word ;D
Favourite (lame) missile combo - is used quite as often as in CF1.7. Damage - dunno - it hurts as much as in CF1.7. If there is one millimeter of power/hull less after a hit doesnt really matter.

This is something that has puzzled me. Ive asked a few people and had conflicting responses about with pretty well all saying they don't really know but they think.... Fabby is quite right when she says there is nothing but confusion around it.

Part of my puzzlement stems from the fact that there are different types of pvp. There pvp that happens by agreement ..in the arean for example its a game .. fun. a gentleman sport that bears the same level of realism that say fencing does to a real sword fight ie not much. The only reason I can see why people dont use bots bats here is because the because it would extend the length of the battle and people want to hurry things along. (though even here it seem a strange tradition as the ships (Im assuming) have been balanced with the number of bots/bats as one of the factors)

Then you have pvp thats the result of RP :- piracy, law enforcement or bounty hunting. This stikes me as a totally different situation where you are fighting for your life (or something ) and not to use bats/bots not only seems silly but spoils the sense of immersion. I may add just for the record where Ive been involved in pvp of this sort Ive erred on the side of caution and not used bots/bats.

I would love to hear why people shouldn't use bots / bats in the latter case, not just using tradition as an argument but some real justifications. Otherwise maybe we should open up to the idea that maybe its ok and could well enhance RP rather than detract from it.

After all this is crossfire the mod that has the games toughest NPCs with reloadable bats/bots. To then say that people shouldn't use bats /bot in PvP seems ..well a bit wimpy.

One immediate benefit may be that people start using a greater number of ships. It seems pretty odd that we have hundreds of ships but only half a dozen are ever actually used with maybe 4 only ever used regularly in the arena.

Omg

Ethics:

Quote

Traditionally, normative ethics (also known as moral theory) was the study of what makes actions right and wrong. These theories offered an overarching moral principle one could appeal to in resolving difficult moral decisions (Wikipedia)

Can we please stop talking about ethic behavior on a Game Server in the content of using Bats and Bots.

Huor
I can understand Stephs sight, it is not off topic but on the Metha level of converstaion which was often used in the past to implement so called "facts". In combination with the question of Griff en it´s exactly the output which other (new players) might feel.

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All in all nobody told why we are not reloading in pvps where there is a very simple answer to this.

Reloading makes fights and battles lasting very long between parties on the same level and allows the target to flee. We have veteran pilots around who would not be beatable anymore if they would be allowed to reload - in battles with only a few of these pilots you always would have the same result. Because of this the decision between the players from long ago not to reload was to give a balance to unexperienced players lets say a bonus - so they are able to beat even the pvp aces once in a while. This so called soft agreement is here to protect the balance for unexperienced Players. If those Players are now starting to reload in fights and battles where the others don´t, they have a double advantage and this way an unfair one.

bots and bats using is efective to a point - THEY CAN RUN AUT
as i was witnes to that YRENT attack me and i chaise him for like 20 mints(he was lagging to) he reload but eventualy he run aut of bats and bots = DETH

so bats and bots can not realy save you from deth but are important wen you wona run away (the mous presus pirate tradition "FIGHT to RUN AWAY")
and i must say in mass batles it is not agenst the HONOR OF PVP cuz mass batles ARE NT PVP

THEY ARE PSVP
so wen i remeber in 1.7 in "mass" batles ppl ere separeited on 2( like 3-4 coples) and they fight 1 on 1 now is 3 ppl on 1 wen he is trying to pvp with some one elce. AND USUALY IS POLICE GANKING (no pvp skills-gank!)
so dont cry to me "RELOUDER" wen 4 ppl are shooting me in the back : ) cry to me relouder we i fight with you 1 on 1 and i reload, WICH I DONT DO

reloading or not reloading?
the first year after FL got released every damn player reloaded... freelancers did, clans did... even i did.
Then the top clans of all the servers came up with an agreement of honor and respect. As formal biggest Freelancer clan Bloodguard followed that agreement over years and brought it to Crossfire.
You ask for reasons... honor and respect.... thats enough.

However i dont understand the existence of this thread at all.
You can not demand something that is not written, you can not demand something subjective such as honor and respect. What you can do is lead by example and push by force (if you get the hint).

i guess this thread was openened because some didn't understood the "push by force" OP...