Proposition to remove the mines from cf

Quote from [}<>{SHS}<>{]

in my opinion mines do more harm then good

i agree, that'S meant they are ment for.... (kidding :P)

Quote from [}<>{SHS}<>{]

befor all forum stars attack me here with "learn to speel","ho do you think you are" and stuff let me tell you the strory of the 1000 server crashes i saw.
it iwas cold winter morning wen i log in to find big bmg root open. like any good smuggler i refil my ship with waile oil and went to tryde. but then dark clowd aper, a balte! PX did not wona give up to the police demands of stoping the bmg transfer so police start enforsing the LAW but the know litle of wat was to come. aperantly none of them knew that mines can warp the time space continiume giving it endles loop(server crash) so they use mines and the time warp agen and agen and agen.
i poor smuggler feeding 5 kids did not belive that time and space was so crashable. i try to talk with them but it was to late. bloodlust and anger keep this pilots in fearsome balte for meny mileniums(severl server h) so wat elce can i do but to drain the waile oil from my tank and go watch baywatch(boobis O,O)

Well, on my personnal experience, mines never caused lag in combat but i know the Server Rules suggest to avoid them because they make lag (and in some cases leads to server crash). However, i wonder if this problem is fixable in anyway before requesting the total removal of the Mines in the game...

I believe mines will have a great role to play with capships getting stronger in 1.9... i tell you i use my dual mine dropper on Nomad Carriers and they go down like flies with that extra bombing power...

Ofc in PvP it's not useful because ships move too fast for the mines but when you try to escape a squad of IC aliens or take on a capship (and eventually stations if the Destructible Universe is working on 1.9) they make a difference...

That said, we'd need to see if their use can stop causing some ppl problems... i mean, why are they so different than missiles or NPC ships spawning in patrol ??? These doesn't cause server instability...

Mines never caused laggs?

Just use program for measuring FPS and try PvP. I usually have 60, and when mine explode in front of me, it lower on 10-20, somstimes even my screen stop working( my game just stop working ) for a 0.5-1 sec..

My opinion is that mines do no good. But ppl should just not use them. They are great for killing NPCs or disrupting TLs.

dino, even if they affect your FPS, its not affecting the server stability (at least this is not a really good proof)... I lag when ANYTHING explodes or if i come too close to a JH (rifts are the worst). You and i just need better graphic cards...

if you tell me your ping goes nuts or you lose packages or go fluctuating, then it'll means the server is affected...

but this is very strange... some claim the mines cause terrible network lag/server instability while others use them without a problem.... i wonder if it's not a problem related to the player's PC : the PC has a rough time dealing with mines, the client become unresponsive and server looses integrity because the player goes fluctuating...

What machine you got SHS ??? perhaps it'll give us a clue...

Quote from SA_ARROW

but this is very strange... some claim the mines cause terrible network lag/server instability while others use them without a problem.... i wonder if it's not a problem related to the player's PC : the PC has a rough time dealing with mines, the client become unresponsive and server looses integrity because the player goes fluctuating...

New PC here and mines do the same shit to server as before in 1,7 amd 1,81 1,82 with my old PC, but mines are very useful for RP, imagine smuggler or pirate who trying to escape in TL without mines.Impossible to imagine.

We just need to repeat same thing to noobs every day: "pls do not use mines in a group fighting"
that's all -imo

I can explain how and why mines cause server lag if anyone besides me cares.

The server keeps track of everything that moves. Guns, ships, CMs, missiles, mines, NPCs, etc. It also generates these things based on certain inputs or protocols for spawning. Therefor, when you hit your mine dropper button, a signal goes from your PC to the server and says "So-and-so just dropped a mine," the server says, "Okay!" then puts the mine behind your ship. The server then controls where the mine goes, who it locks on to, and when it detonates. When you've got a half a dozen people dropping a mine every .5 seconds, the server starts to have problems. It's the same thing behind lag on mass IC expeditions. It's simply too much for the server to keep up with especially with all the stuff OP has added in.

As to removing the mines totally, don't do it. They're vital in the IC and against cap ships. Just don't use them in mass PvP. Okay? Good.

In one word this server sucks for such amount of data, not to mention when we have 40+ online.Server cannot handle this, longer than hour or two...
In ideal situation maybe, but this world is not ideal, neither is CF world with its citizens^ ^.

Quote from SA_SEQAN

I can explain how and why mines cause server lag if anyone besides me cares.

The server keeps track of everything that moves. Guns, ships, CMs, missiles, mines, NPCs, etc. It also generates these things based on certain inputs or protocols for spawning. Therefor, when you hit your mine dropper button, a signal goes from your PC to the server and says "So-and-so just dropped a mine," the server says, "Okay!" then puts the mine behind your ship. The server then controls where the mine goes, who it locks on to, and when it detonates. When you've got a half a dozen people dropping a mine every .5 seconds, the server starts to have problems. It's the same thing behind lag on mass IC expeditions. It's simply too much for the server to keep up with especially with all the stuff OP has added in.

As to removing the mines totally, don't do it. They're vital in the IC and against cap ships. Just don't use them in mass PvP. Okay? Good.

good idea behind it... not 100% correct but still good
the server does not say "okay" it says "1"
however it is actually a bit worth with the tracking as you noticed the mines are controlled by the server (which is true) the server has to synchronize the clients with the server x times per second (100 times per secound would be the optimum) but due to the time needs to your pc and back the communication never is synchron -> lag
that principle applies to ships, missiles, mines and various other objects
it does not apply to gun fire as the hits are calculated on the client side (which requires only the position of ships and the stats of the guns to do a relative simple mathematical calculation which leads to a result (damage) that is submitted to the server)

Now that ive confused 50% of the readers...
Since I assume most of you use dual mines the calculations are getting doubled due to the 2 objects.

Mines are also a key item against capital ships..... shield absorbers And the most pro players use them at least in this situation

Quote from SA_ARROW

dino, even if they affect your FPS, its not affecting the server stability (at least this is not a really good proof)... I lag when ANYTHING explodes or if i come too close to a JH (rifts are the worst). You and i just need better graphic cards...

if you tell me your ping goes nuts or you lose packages or go fluctuating, then it'll means the server is affected...

I meant this:
Ppl use mines in pvp vs me.. my FPS get lower = i get graphical laggs = my ping gets high.
then, ofc i kill them
but they are just complaining about my ping so they use even more mines coz they cant hit me with guns.
and after few rounds, i get soooo much laggs( connection and visual ) so i need to restart game or game restart itself( crash )

Short version:
ppl use mines =they get laggy = their ping goes up = yellow/red lag starts appearing = crash.

I know it's because of my PC, but some other ppl were complaining about same, and they got some better PCs than mine.

Mines are essential. I use them to collapse trade lanes, for one. The only matter is not to use them in mass PvP combats.

And common sense indicates that you should decrease your graphics settings if you're having problems with the game lagging.

Most players usually restrain from using mines(or at least dropping large amounts of them) but npc's don't and whatever you go you will see npc's.

let me resume this whole thread :

we want something new/removed
50% agree / 50% oppose
due to a lack of viable solution or actual solution, we simply do nothing, continue as it was and tell ppl to use their common sense...

i have the feeling i heard this story before...

we are technically bound to UDP what rarely works synchron. Although bits moves with the speed of light from one end to the other end of the wire - must not mean that if you put 1 into one end the 1 comes out at the other end. Mostly then its a 0. Ant between 0 and 1 are not much related to bits
UDP once is sending packages and then it was send - so you really cant say that a 1 remains a 1. Hence if you received a 0 its the lag you witness. So i dont think that the server has bad performance as it is able to do a few billion calculations in one second - its more the problem of signals are travelling around the whole world, getting mixed, running against a blockade, getting splitted and not getting connected in the same order...
Sometimes technical limits can be a pain in the ass. Everyone who cannot understand it is very welcome to introduce something better and implement it for everyone working better than before

ill investigate a bit if improvements can be done

Mines are an excellent weapon for me are an integral part of a freelancer, so do not know how to fight them do not care, I'm not interested in your weak computers that slow you down and lagg at the lowest activity in the game. I urge you to strive to make the game more spectacular and interesting, with the elimination of mines game becomes very ''gray''... ;]]