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There are 47 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by |PX|Dark_Raven.
Admit it Spiky, you don't use any cap ship, cus they sux in your opinion.... you just don't want them to kill you more often 
Fair Play ? then buy a cap ship yourself and fight with it !
Quote from Spiky-don't like BS, Cruisers and all that crap;
no changes [...] ... they are fine as they are
so, they are crap or they are fine, decide it.
If they are fine use them.
why would I want to buy a cap ship when PvPing a cap ship/cruiser in a VHF is harder than cap ship vs cap ship?
whats your point here other than trolling?
I don't need anyone here to tell me what 'fairness' is or how to be 'fair' -- I think I know that quite well
anyway back to Bond's original post I don't think cap ships nor cruisers need to be 'fixed' (except the shaking thing if that is true); as of now I would say that they are balanced (if you know how to use them...)
ROFL, you saved yourself there with 'nearly ofc.'
don't like BS, Cruisers and all that crap; using those in 1v1 is easy mode and boring to fight against in a VHF
Quote from Spiky-PvPing a cap ship/cruiser in a VHF is harder than cap ship vs cap ship
Option 1 you said: Boring a VHF vs a cap ship(and that also means easy, if it'd be hard it wouldn't be boring), also you say you can kill anyone in a BS with a fighter.
Option 2: Fighting a BS in VHF is hard...
even ofc it's a bit harder than cap vs cap cus none of them can avoid the other's powerful guns like how a fighter does, and it's only matter of a bit of missing the target or using special firing.
So ?
You know many of us here always win vs a cap ship, staying at 1 K far just strafing or just spinning arroun the BS being stick with it... noone can hit a fighter strafing at that distance with low firerate and slow BS guns. But another cap ship don't strafe, (enough)
My point is not trolling, as you always say (try use something different btw), but showing this is clear, a 'lost battle' and that anyways they are planned to be balanced in 1.9, just reading the announcement thread.
Bond, if you sometimes don´t try to make anything which is against your ideas personal, it sometimes may become a possibility to start a discussion as it was hopefully meant to be. If you make such a proposal which will drive CF in a big pot with many other Mods you will ofc. starting to face a storm which is blowing right into your face. May you please keep in mind, that i personaly will not ignore everyone who thinks that courtesy is just an empty phrase - because of an aged based testosterone imbalance?
Now to your statements:
With Physics the Game Physics is meant. You may know something about space but if you add mass to a certain object you also will add inertia FL is slightly portraying this. Meaning put more Mass (Hull) to an object and it will behave this way. Also from my point of view the FL engine could do better in this - but hey it´s nice to fight in it since 2003 - so... 560.000 hit points is exactly what you have if you buy a CF pilotable Battleship and put a Class 10 Armor on it. That is more than enough, because either a skilled fighter will have real work to get it down.
About the Shields and the piloting as a brick, don´t think that i will tell you anything how to pilot or move or fight with a CapShip - or how to use it´s behavior, shield or movement. There is simply no particular reason to do it, it´s far better fun to read some postings about it here.
F1 out of Space, even when you tried to make it looking ironical, is not possible when you are using the original CF Installation, if you do so - here is not the place to tell it to every newby around, thats something which was tried to avoid in 1.8 - and i personaly lost some nights in this topic. So please don´t touch those things any further - or face the next topics here about it and be the one responsible for it.
My meaning of expensive is something which would exceed the barrier of the FL amount of possible credits. A CapShip which would be able to behave like you want it when we have 30+ Players on the Server must have a purchase price of 10 to 12 Billions because you would be able to imbalance a whole Clan with only one ship, not to mention that this kind of Ship would destroy ASF/CSF and every fight based RP too. Just as a hint: A Battleship in the 2. world war when a hostile U-Boat was near was scrap metal after a view minutes - Thats why escorts are around this kind of firepower.
For your 1.7/1.8 comparasion. Yes indeed you are because of some Weapon Stats being slightly changed in 1.8 - so also when you are a skilled CapShip Pilot you have to learn something new - which will let me say thanks to the creator once more - cause otherwise some of us would not have the benefits to adapt their styles to the new Mod, which is holding us here like you are hold here because of the new Mod and the things you noticed already and will notice in the future.
Other Mods: Experience Bond, you may have noticed that CF might be the best Mod for you and me, thats why we are still here i suppose, but it is not the only one (i can provide links to you if needed - some of them are btw. downloadable at SWAT). Partly these Mods are using concepts for CapShips which you seems to prefer. I played some of them and so i used my experience to tell you that you are thinking of imbalanced Bs. Also partly i can understand that pvp´íng and battling, learning from your faults, working weeks and month for a proper movement and aiming, searching ships and equip them with everything the Mod has to offer to get maybe the last percent as an advantage in battles while others are just flying around might be a too painfull way for some to improve the needed skills but hopefully this will be the way for the future too.
And now i will try telling you what kind of argueing i consider as arrogant, if it was meant this way, what i don´t think. Coming around telling, after the Mod was released that a whole ship class was wrong developed, without even thinking about possible consequences for the whole enviroment and ofc. without having a clue how things are working may make the point to it.
@DW, you are right in several points.... adapting and such, but an experienced BS pilot can't learn something new or more in a BS as they have nothing new at all, but fighters have more powerful fast firerate alien guns(which make you tremble at a fast rate 
)
True about the F1 in space, if a Server Police will notice it being used in combat or running from RP that player will be sanctioned with a nice fine. A SP can see that misuse even in their normal chars, them move to teh SP one and make the fine already wearing the proof they needed for it.
It 'could' only be used against NPCs even it makes you appear on the universal channel as 'fined', or used for transferring stuff between chars with the help of another... or while noone see you(meaning you have noone on your tail in the same system as you, as it won't also be allowed that a police in New York ask a smuggler in California for a fine, andthe guy in Calif could dock and leave or prepare ).
Also bats/bots re not allowed, but ... somebody has enough experience with them...
The last but not least important...
Even adding more hull to a BS is not the solution of this ! Because the shakes increased with fast firerate guns are still there, and the ship will neither move away from the fighter... it will just make it more suffering time for the cap ship
The changes at teh cap ships should be based on shields capacity and regen, and some guns that can actually hit a fighter, maybe 2 slots on both laterals for anti fighter missiles or BS guns with more speed would solve it.
There's just a bit to balance, as the BS are powerful, but like a Sumo or guy with big muscles against a small uncatchable samurai or chinese fighter.... yes strong guy can kill the other one with 1 hit.... but he's too slow to catch him and looses. Ofc 2 sumo guys fighting are balanced 
Nice, so u are the first one who half-digest my idea, but with some consequences which is so obvious, cos i can see that u have some "stomach probs."
Ok just because the fact that i am altruist i will help you to "digest this to the end of the process"...and u know where the "process" usually ended
Bond, if you sometimes don´t try to make anything which is against your ideas personal, it sometimes may become a possibility to start a discussion as it was hopefully meant to be. If you make such a proposal which will drive CF in a big pot with many other Mods you will ofc. starting to face a storm which is blowing right into your face. May you please keep in mind, that i personaly will not ignore everyone who thinks that courtesy is just an empty phrase - because of an aged based testosterone imbalance?
Daywalker, if u just for moment forget ur age/vet/elder status, then and only then, u will be MAYBE, but just maybe open for new ideas and for discussion.
And if and only if, one day i see u like not jumping at my back with this arrogant boring STATUS QUO attitude, then you might recognize in me the best interlocutor whom you ever met.
When it comes about testosterone imbalance, we can open another topic and put some thoughts in there, and yes many of us have a similar manifestation too, also there is no need to be shy and to hide ur slf behind curtain of courtesy 
.So as u can see i can understand you...and don't worry, this is just a temporary thing.You will be fully functional in 10-15 years...again
With Physics the Game Physics is meant. You may know something about space but if you add mass to a certain object you also will add inertia FL is slightly portraying this. Meaning put more Mass (Hull) to an object and it will behave this way. Also from my point of view the FL engine could do better in this - but hey it´s nice to fight in it since 2003 - so... 560.000 hit points is exactly what you have if you buy a CF pilotable Battleship and put a Class 10 Armor on it. That is more than enough, because either a skilled fighter will have real work to get it down.
You want to say that game (Freelancer engine) can not handle this? If so then the discussion is over b4 the start.
And hey ofc it's nice, why i am here all this time for God's sake?I like and enjoy in this game, but it is not inconsistent with the idea of changing something that already exists, of course, if it is generally accepted from "majority" and feasible.
Yes "real work" when shield goes down, few missile salvos will do, "real hard work"
F1 out of Space, even when you tried to make it looking ironical, is not possible when you are using the original CF Installation, if you do so - here is not the place to tell it to every newby around, thats something which was tried to avoid in 1.8 - and i personaly lost some nights in this topic. So please don´t touch those things any further - or face the next topics here about it and be the one responsible for it.
No DW u miss my point about F1, my remark was related to 1.7, i never used this even if i had knew how to use F1 in space, I am 100% legal player.^-^
My meaning of expensive is something which would exceed the barrier of the FL amount of possible credits. A CapShip which would be able to behave like you want it when we have 30+ Players on the Server must have a purchase price of 10 to 12 Billions because you would be able to imbalance a whole Clan with only one ship, not to mention that this kind of Ship would destroy ASF/CSF and every fight based RP too. Just as a hint: A Battleship in the 2. world war when a hostile U-Boat was near was scrap metal after a view minutes - Thats why escorts are around this kind of firepower.
I see that u want to be in handy, but why so expensive? BS 250-300mill as basic price+150 mill for all equipment, would be quite acceptable i think??
And yes when it comes about submarine, but we talking about light or heavy fighters here, and when u already comparing this, do u know how many hits was needed to sink this babies?If u want to follow this logic, then bomber ships here>>> a.k.a submarines in ww2, must do the dirty work all alone.Which is not the case here.^
DW this was WW2.Put this memories aside, please.
For your 1.7/1.8 comparasion. Yes indeed you are because of some Weapon Stats being slightly changed in 1.8 - so also when you are a skilled CapShip Pilot you have to learn something new - which will let me say thanks to the creator once more - cause otherwise some of us would not have the benefits to adapt their styles to the new Mod, which is holding us here like you are hold here because of the new Mod and the things you noticed already and will notice in the future.
Ok i see what u mean, and i second this...but shaking and trembling u can not override with any skills (maybe just my PC issue,Keli mention the same behavior in another topic, as i remember)However i'm looking forward to meet new things.
Other Mods: Experience Bond, you may have noticed that CF might be the best Mod for you and me, thats why we are still here i suppose, but it is not the only one (i can provide links to you if needed - some of them are btw. downloadable at SWAT). Partly these Mods are using concepts for CapShips which you seems to prefer. I played some of them and so i used my experience to tell you that you are thinking of imbalanced Bs. Also partly i can understand that pvp´íng and battling, learning from your faults, working weeks and month for a proper movement and aiming, searching ships and equip them with everything the Mod has to offer to get maybe the last percent as an advantage in battles while others are just flying around might be a too painfull way for some to improve the needed skills but hopefully this will be the way for the future too.
Argh DW, not only in my name for God's sake, omg lol, do u guys see anything except ur asses needs most of the time 
Daywalker Do you know what I was looking at NSU? I was looking for a decent fighter dude.
And i had hours of discussion with this nice Romanian dude, who was admin and held the server(sorry dude i forget ur name).I like all this caps ships there by their looks-mostly, but without real PvP along with some cloak stabback action, i left the mod.Too slow if u ask me.But don't forget their overstate hull, shield and weps statistic LOL
In TT almost the same, in Discovery hmmm pretty balanced when it comes about all stats.
And now i will try telling you what kind of argueing i consider as arrogant, if it was meant this way, what i don´t think. Coming around telling, after the Mod was released that a whole ship class was wrong developed, without even thinking about possible consequences for the whole enviroment and ofc. without having a clue how things are working may make the point to it.
Coming around telling after the mod has been realized??? what are u talking about?
Whole ship class just stayed the same as it was, except new turrets stats and let me say more details (which i really like).
And hey DW i opened this topic after i saw 1.9 topic, whats wrong in this?And what u trying to hide?Do you know how they feel? all these people who are diligently trading day by day to earn money for BS and complete equipment, only to be disappointed after only a couple of fights?
Can u divide You, me and all ppl who are here for years, from newcomers.Can u jump in newbie skin just for a second.
After all, I am glad that you gave your time, to topic, which I opened. 
Now pls can we discuss about these 6 points, which i put in my previous post.Be free to add few if u want!
EDIT:
Like always OP has final word, so ... 
With all respect, I think you guys miss an important point...
What do you use your ship for?
I do not see anyone complaining freighters are "underpowered" in PvPs or in IC... because
who would use one for fighting? (errrr... right?)
I think this goes along the same line.... What is a battleship made for? If you believe it is made
for soloing in arena or IC, I would greatly recommend switching for a fighter ship...
Now I am not saying battleships are perfect, but this thread would need to move to CF mod development
rather - along with specialized ships thread for instance 
Nice post Bond... I just noticed some stuff in it but might read when I have more time... heh
Faaby IF You are right:
If the BIG Battleship aren't made for fighting against fighters, against aliens, against NPCs and against nothing except BIG Battleship themselves... then why they have to exist if they have no use
It's like we'd make a super slow freighter with a Rail Gun in front with 1 00 mill Hull, which can only fight vs another super slow freighter with a railgun, which is defenceless vs anything else than another super freighter.
Compleetly useless
Even teh actual BS do something... and have some use, but limited.
imagine your dreams/wishes
and imagine a big wall and on that wall is written with grafitti "Freelancer Engine Limitation"
and now imagine how these wishes are getting smashed at that wall
got that picture?
it is not that i dont want battleships being "different" but FL was never meant to have such battleships
FL can be balanced to support fighters or it can be balanced to support battleships... it can not be balanced to support both correctly
Ok Op, as i thought, but u know, with ur magic wand and ur magician potions, maybe u can smash this wall, and maybe u can bring minor/major changes like a magic at the day light?
Sounds better? 
Edit:
And if FL engine creates limitation, then for sure u can do next things:
1. Please remove this shaking effects or lower the level of shaking/trembling
2. Put CM slot, so BS can flee from Nasty aliens when it's needed
3. Put thrusters slot, and thrusters will drain all energy in 5-10 sec for example, like with "normal" thruster
u still believe in magic?
that are only dirty tricks
Just adding a higher shield and regen for BS and gusn with more speed (both very possible) it'd be better... ok.
Cus fighters got better ships and better weapons, BS also need a bit better weps
u still believe in magic?
that are only dirty tricks
Magic for me is something beautiful, but open only for ppl who knew how to use!
Just adding a higher shield and regen for BS and gusn with more speed (both very possible) it'd be better... ok.
Cus fighters got better ships and better weapons, BS also need a bit better weps
Display MoreEdit:
And if FL engine creates limitation, then for sure u can do next things:
1. Please remove this shaking effects or lower the level of shaking/trembling
2. Put CM slot, so BS can flee from Nasty aliens when it's needed
3. Put thrusters slot, and thrusters will drain all energy in 5-10 sec for example, like with "normal" thruster
Quote1. Please remove this shaking effects or lower the level of shaking/trembling
Bond, this is why OP posted what he posted.... This is not possible, keeping the cap ship movable...
The only way it can make the BS not spin or shake (too much but it still shakes, is part of the program, cus fighters also tremble ) is adding a ton of mass (not [related with] hull, mass) and teh BS would still loose and won't even move at all with engines...
Bond, this is why OP posted what he posted.... This is not possible, keeping the cap ship movable...
The only way it can make the BS not spin or shake (too much but it still shakes, is part of the program, cus fighters also tremble ) is adding a ton of mass (not [related with] hull, mass) and teh BS would still loose and won't even move at all with engines...
ohh thx, i didn't knew this! 
Still the thrusters idea is pretty great... even not on OP's 'plans' as it seems...
The BSes should come with 4 integrated BS thrusters (as the ship is big, needs more of them counting realistic model, but counting game's engine it can be 1 thruster but buggy at the logical sight) which give the proper propulsion (up to 250 speed or arround) for 5 seconds, cus of the secondary energy drain (not the same as wep's energy ofc).
Just adding a higher shield and regen for BS and gusn with more speed (both very possible) it'd be better... ok.
Cus fighters got better ships and better weapons, BS also need a bit better weps
sure if you can by magic summon 10 new shield hardpoint classes supported by the game... otherwise no
coz fighters would be able to use the same shields
Solution: The automatic one which BSes use right now they can be modified, together with the hull..
the current one is a fighter shield which i used because nobody would abuse it
