Your turn

Michael

1. Alaska has 2 basses.
2. If the CF system would be conquered then one could conquer Alaska. The same rules that apply for basses can apply for territory also, so if you conquer middpoint rift, then you're on your way to Alaska
3. please don't try to find enemies when there are not and let's set the differences aside. The only place that we should be on opposite sides SHOULD BE ROLEPLAY.

@Cryssis

As I understand CF is also a RP server. Wouldn't it be better if instead of "Events", which are schedualed, organized, planned ...and are by definition bound to pesky rules and limits in creativity and tactical & strategical approach, wouldn't it be better if we had a living, breathing self-adjustable universe in which territories shift, clans gain or lose influence and everything helps to induce the player in heavy RP? (Situation in which, everything being ROLEPLAY, there would be less abuse, fighting and bickering outside roleplay -> and no clan wars and tension outside of RP)

@ Op

There could be 2 situations:

1. Paying for a system acknowledges you as a server clan and grants you the possibility to "conquer" systems (with no basses) or basses, BUT you can lose one base if there are 2 in your system or a certain territory (defined by coordinates or landmarks -clouds, debree fields, etc as a DMZ or something)

2. Paying for a system does all of the above BUT once you've paid for one then it's off-limits to attackers.

As I understand, there is currently a trend for RP and rumour goes around that CF needs RP. Why not make it a 24/7 RP server? This way the mnute that people log on they are/should be in character so there should be, at least hipoteticaly, less problems...This, of course means that if for instance members from clan X do not want to RP AND clan Y is to attack one of their systems, by being inactive clan X will lose it or part of it...This in turn is why democracy favors the bigger segment of the population. If most people want to RP, then let it be so. IF not, no or less RP.

Me for one, the moment I log in Crossfire (and It's been some time...) I want to forget all about the crap from RL, the dirtbag at the Ministry of Finance that taxed me 2 times for dues on April, the sh*t-head that sold me a couch without delivering it when I needed it and the list can go on and on...I am really not in the mood for anything else but Roleplay...

well, given the fact that

1. freelancers go on about their business oblivious to inter-clan disputes AND that, as you can read in the model I have presented, they would have automatic transit rights (of course, if they are not kos...case in which they would be killed anywhere anyway)

2. clans cannot lose their system (or base) irrelevant of what happenes.

I do not see any problems there...

Moreover, if a clan decides that they want to "conquer the world"...well, bad news...because as they conquer more and more territory they have less and less resources to defend it properly...so that they will lose it...and if some clans continue to conquer they will collapse on their own castle of cards...

so why not make it 24/7 -> you conquer a system or base within a week time (according to the Conquest Model), you bust your ass to conquer it, then you can reap the benefits of its monopolies and patrol it (but you'd have to let freelancers pass the "conquered" system without any permission, free passage! unless they are kos or something similar). Why return it the next day?What's the point of working for something if you know that it will all be in vain in the morning.

It is very important to note one BIG difference: rented system IS NOT THE SAME as a "conquered" system or base

Right, OP made Juneau dockable in 1.8....

still that doesn't change the fact that a clan can't loose their stations or planets especially like how SA have teh GMG station and DC teh Tekagis or Dragon navals one... counting that not all clans can defend themselves in clan wars. So as Crysis, damage to own clan systems can't be possible, that's why clan leaders pay for it.... not to say the clan (could) only has Sector 4C with a wreck or cloud in it from the system they pay for, just because the clan only has no members or 2-4 members to defend.

That idea is eliminating the only part unchanged and safe from the server and portal.

Outside the rented system, everything is ok.

Edit:

Counting Steph's last post:

1. Ok

2. Ok if clans can't loose anything inside their rented system, neither a single sector.

3. If a clan conquers mroe system, and somebody attacks it, they have to wait until the clan's fighters arrive...
but I agree it doesn't need a restart the next day... maybe a restart at month, if it's needed a restart, with a restart the next few hours, why would people fight for it.

Ok, i am changing my mind - it can work - sry was a little negative about it.

Also there would be several benefits:

For the active Clans - Members who would be more online because there would be something to loose on.
For the Freelancers - RP if wanted (as Mercs for conquers for example), one more thing to be part of a clan being able to make 100% of this RP,

If it realy can be done - an increased population (some Servers with those kind of Game proofs it)

Btw. who the heck would start to invade/conquer parts of Hiruga?

edit: For the Clan System decision we can easy let the Leaders/Members vote on this - no need to bite inside it yet.

Quote

edit: For the Clan System decision we can easy let the Leaders/Members vote on this - no need to bite inside it yet.

Not the members, only the leaders, not counting the leaders/coleaders are the ones who pay for the system, also:
Else there's not a fair voting.... let's say as example (but not the only who could do the same) UR has about 20 newbs who can come and vote what their leader want and beat with a majority Where DC, IOC, CFPD, BG, LP, SMG would only have 0-1-2-3-4 to vote.

but why to vote, it's clearly counterproductive counting systems renting. Not all clans can defend or participate in this event , and can't defend their system, so letting them as said before with sector 1A in their own rented system is inimaginable. For sure if that clan can't regain his own system would leave renting and go as a no home clan, and there are several in that situation.

This can't be a everything or nothing event, neither touching those rented systems.

Either way, untouchable clan rented system or not, it would be a huge step forward, RP wize and community wize...not to mention that every noob that would come in and get sucked in this RP would want a clan of his/her own=rented system (we could make a special offer for the noobs...there are lots of systems out there) (I think that we could even make an Level-up system for the clans ie. Minor clans - one base in a system (maybe in a system with more basses)- I don't want to sound mercantile...but 5euro/month (1 euro x 5 people) Clans - 10 euro/ 2 basses or small system with 2 basses and Established Clans - one big system (min. 4 basses) or two small systems, etc...the possibilities are endless...but we have to have "the dream"

I can see Michael's point and to be honest from a personal point of view I think that if this is the only problem, then no need to worry about the cherry on the cake^^ if there is a cake in the first place.

Anyway, all of this is not important in the end...we will figure it out after we agree to a 24/7 RP Conquest Model...

1 clan 1 voice or whatever else, where is the problem? Realy thats only a minor question if you guys (you too bond? ) can make this one a success

Intruders can also use the event to explore systems usually out of their reach

Actually, trying to conquer/defend Hiruga would be so much fun! Multiple entrances and exits and a big-ass minefield!

whats the role of the freelancers in all this? Guess no as the initial idea was for clans, or?

@ Huor

To what you've said well...no. This was thought for all of the Server, Clans and Freelancers...
This is as much interesting for freelancers as for the clans.

In the new model, freelancers would have to take in account the zones that the clans are enforcing monopolies on...for instance...IF nowdays Jack Smith is doing his usual "runs", smuggling BMG and buying back some comodity and so on and so forth, in the new system Jack Smith would have to chose between

a. Remain neutral to the clan that is currently holding that monopoly in that system and pay his dues to that clan
b. Remain neutral to the clan and invest in an escort or try to avoid them.
c. Risk getting friendly to that clan and if the system switches owners, then point b.
d. Get friendly with an opposing clan in hope that they will someday dispute that system/base and they would have some benefits off that.

These are just 4 new possibilities for freelancers that I thought of in about 5 seconds since I've seen your post...the possibilities would be almost endless..within the limits of the human imagination, the engine of the game and the CF General Server Rules.

That's to say that...Freelancers will have the same status and possibilities as now...+ an indefinite number of more things to do^^

+ There is one big benefit I didn't think about just now...The Smuggler RP, one which now is under-rated to say at best...will become something quite usefull...as they could get places, systems and basses that other players will not...(in the situation that clan X is at war with mine -or I don't want to risk a diplomatic incident- I can't buy stuff from one base it owns when any are online...but if I log on at the time that some of them do I may prefer to pay a smuggler for that equipment...and as long as I did not dock at that base to purchase the equipment -thing which can be veryfied- then nobody can accuse me of anything)

Yes it could be nice....
even CFPD will not sux more money from poor freelancers... maybe if they are above lvl 70 or 80 Or that are freelancers like Geronimo or Spock...

CFPD (and if other allies agree) Police including SA and UR will conquer the systems for peacekeeping and fair prices for the rich and poor people taking from rich, giving to poor

All this ONLY if the rented systems can't be touched at all. Else the leaders if they can't defend they have no reason to pay anything.

This idea is interesting. If we get opposing police/military powers trying to each conquer the universe and pirates + mercs using this turmoil to make their profit, it will be great. Altough, we must not loose the aspect that not all clans have for goal to dominate the world... Pirates are not conquerors, smugglers are not conquerors, police are not conquerors, mercs are not conquerors.... its only how the clan customize their RP that would make them potential players in this kind of game... Clans are not all in shape to start or support a war effort either...

SA will not enter any conquering game thats for sure. We are explorers and defenders of mankind. We certainly wont start attacking other clans for their territories. Anyway, if i decided to embark on a conquest against other humans i will lose all my members cause they are not in this clan for the fights but for the RP we have...

but i guess with the good factions this gameplay could be interesting.

About Crysis' idea of a "no-effect" invasion of clan systems i love it. as long as it lasts only for few hours and that the clans are willing and prepared...

Arrow

It's not like that, mate...you don't have to set your goal to conquer the world in order to expand your territoty...

If you ever played "Risk" then you know that in the beginning they role the dice and share the territories...just like the European Superpowers did with colonies all over the world.

Normally, clans would pick an area that is close to their home system and start building around it until they eventually neighbour another clan (according to some Geopolitical Theories) but the CF situation is somewhat special...because of the great number of systems liked the the CF system that are dead ends.

What I wanted to say...was that in the beginning clans will take up territory unchallanged, until most of the valuable territory is claimed. After this, the fun will begin.

What if some new clan comes along and wants a system? somebody would object.
Nothing more simple...They will have to a. Get friendly with a clan that owns territory and affords to help the minor clan develop as in "giving" them a system (which the minor clan will pay for at SWAT) and this means that there will be an alliance between the minor clan and the major one that helped it...and from this alone can spawn tons and tons of diplomatic, strategic and tactical RP.

If this will be adopted, I would strongly reccomend that you pick an area in space and start building on it.

@ everybody
The goal here is to make "areas of influence", not a rainbow or a political map. This is why I think that it would be best if in the "Conquest Model" we put a rule that states that Clans can only conquer systems that are a maximum 2 or 3 systems away from a controled system of their own (we could make an expection only at the begining givn the special CF situation). (again...the CF system is the honeypot here...system which would have to remain neutral for the sake of ballance for now (like a Crossfire UN)...in the future it could be conquerable).

all that would be perfect if we had like 50 players :D, we have to adjust the funs options for 15-25 players

conquering and attacking systems would require constant clan members online, which, perhaps, with the exception of SA and PX is very often not the case

Conquering a system is a strong word to use when there is none to defend

And that is exactly why we need to make this event-type, to tell ppl when they can expect this sort of action to occur so they make sure they are there to participate

Some of us have jobs, studies, families

@ diablo

Yes, that is precisely why the "battle" should take place within a week's time. Don't tell me that in one week (especially if you have one MORE week to plan it) you cannot synchronize all of the members in your clan so that you can kill members of the attacking clan in the contested system. (according to the ASF/CSF ROE the winner is chosen according to the number of kills...if the attacking clan has some advantages in coordination, numbers etc...then that's the reality. the same goes for the defending clan.) We must build on this and develop, think this out for a future in which CF will have more players...if we do not do that and anchor ourselves in the current situation there wil be no chance for improvement.

Believe me when I say that I have very little time to play...I've been offline for almost one full year because of that...

Please don't tell me that a proper coordination cannot be done in 2 weeks' time...

Obviously not... if it were true wouldn't you manage to come online at least once? You missed many events and battles

Diablo

My case is a special one, not all of the players of CF go offline for a year and then come back when they can...I didn't want to come online at least once because if I do not have time to play then I prefer not playing to spending only 15 or 30 minutes online/day. You strike me as an intelligent person...yet you ask these kind of questions...

@all
I read op's post and I wanted to bring something constructive to it so I did. I put together my experience with CF, SW and other mods in order to help improve things on CF. I appreciate that you have read my proposals and taken them into account but up until now I have only heard complaints and very little constructive suggestions.

Let's start with this: will it be ok if I would post a "Conquest Model" based on what I said in the clan leaders' section and the clan leaders could point out the problems in it so that we can figure them out one by one and come up with something practical that we can implement in the long run?

We're having an increased activity on the server... today the playerso nline didn't came under 20... but to 21, 23, which is very rare for THIS hours, of midday in european time