Relations with Lancersreactor

There are 126 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by Fire_Wolf_br.

    Yes but one thing people don't realize is this: Even by using a wireless connection and ghosting on someone else's IP, you can still be found. Eventually it will happen and he will pay a dear price in some fashion or another.


    InterPol loves kids like this.


    Just for some off-topic news, we recently had a spammer get 17 years in prison for illegally spamming mailboxes. can't imagine what hackers will start getting for jail time world wide.

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    hehe ive just seen something funny on the TLR news...excuse me that is just too funny


    the first 1000 members have registered in just 10 days
    impressive
    at least a nice illusion


    in total when i checked it there were 1007 members
    hmm not bad on the first look at least in 10 days
    on a closer look you will notice that TLR is the only FL community which required a forum registration in order to access the downloads
    based on that EVERY FL community could get 1000 new members in 10 days (maybe even more) if they would keep up the same illusion


    i was a bit interested the the exact numbers
    1007 registered members
    918 0-posters
    that makes more than 91% inactive accounts -> the highest amount in the entire FL community


    what do you think do we want 1000 or 2000 new members every 10 days here at SWAT?

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    I think thats the only thing they have now, the name and the downloads....the ppl hanging out and contributing to mods and helping are gone...maybe forever...


    Nice trick btw...

    OP better don't do that -- no need to put extra load on the DB

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    Quote

    Originally posted by SWAT_OP-R8R
    SWAT was under attack again the entire afternoon


    here are the latest TLR logs:


    Here is the log from just after OP left the channel. I'm posting it to make a point that I hope all of you get. The Freelancer community has a habit of making problems worse rather than better. If you really want things to improve then you have you have to stop making them worse.


    The SWAT and Starport websites were attacked because Azza felt like OP was making threats (his words) and then leaving the channel to avoid any real discussion (which pissed Azza off). Whether or not any of that was true is irrelevant to my point. Azza clearly misunderstood what OP was saying and reacted. Once the attack was made things got out of hand and as you can see from the previously posted log OP got rather angry and started talking in caps. At this point OP was making the situation even worse and nearly got the SWAT website under fire again.


    Here is the conversation that followed. It has been edited to remove off-topic messages and I fixed spelling errors to maintain clarity.



    Objectivity and self-control are necessary qualities for dealing with problems like this. Posting logs of conversations that have gone bad on this site and/or others only serves to make the problem worse. So before you all throw in the towel regarding TLR I suggest you cool off first and then try and figure out how you contributed to the problem and fix that before you do anything else. MentalChaos is not going to listen to people who get in his face talking about everything he is doing wrong if they are also contributing to the problem.


    The only way to solve a problem is if all parties are listening, and right now nobody is listening because they are worked up over the issue.


    My $0.02

    Yeah that's all fine and dandy Louva, but the fuck-up was attacking our server and ruining OUR fun here. That attack was not on Op, it was on US, the community of Crossfire, which is OP's project.


    I find it comical how all involved in that chat keep stating to leave the community out of it, but yet , once again attacking our server and forum to ruin our fun.


    So to clarify, the attack brought us into the fight, not the simple exchange of words. The attack ( one a few months ago and the one this week) is what changed our opinion of TLR.


    Some of us actually pay money into this server, so we have an interest in seeing it up and running properly without someone hacking it in order to take a stab at Op.


    Like I said before, there is enough documented admissions to bring legal action against all parties involved in the hacking, so do we need to go there or as I said before, go back to our own homes and stay in them?


    So the big question is this: Do ALL the Server owners and Admins want to LOSE everything they worked for, over the years AND is the hacking worth it?

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    Folks, leaving something alone is not the right thing to do. If you have a scratch, do you leave it alone or itch it? You itch it, of course. If we cut off TLR, it will die. If TLR dies, some people will get... angry. When people get angry, people get vengeful. And vengeful people could do some real harm if they hacked SWAT and destroyed everything; downloads, forums, news pages, all of it. So really, it's in SWAT's best interest to help TLR, in order to prevent anything... unfortunate.


    MK

    [GLOW=green]"If knowledge is power, then to be unknown is to be unconquerable." -Star Trek: Birth of the Federation[/GLOW]

    Quote

    Originally posted by mknote
    Folks, leaving something alone is not the right thing to do. If you have a scratch, do you leave it alone or itch it? You itch it, of course. If we cut off TLR, it will die. If TLR dies, some people will get... angry. When people get angry, people get vengeful. And vengeful people could do some real harm if they hacked SWAT and destroyed everything; downloads, forums, news pages, all of it. So really, it's in SWAT's best interest to help TLR, in order to prevent anything... unfortunate.


    MK


    Double edged sword....if we help we get flamed for showing the some solutions DO work, if we dont help then we get flamed and hacked.


    As I said, stop the hacking and quickly.


    You want to resolve the issues, get all involved in a padded room and take care of it that way.

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    yeah, vengeful ppl are hard to deal.


    i'm one of them in some cases *looks to the horizon*


    but only in some cases btw lol.



    well, i'm not very active in the overall FL community nowadays due to the lack of time, but, since sunday, it looks the flames stopped, at least a bit.


    this looks good heh? however, it looks the flames are very far from their end... and this isn't healthy. i know my post is quite obvious, but i want to put my oppinion here. solutions? imo i don't have any which isn't idiot.


    magnet: ready??? if yes, PM me with the links ^^

    Creator of the SWAT Mod: Freelancer: Expanded Universe - currently halted due to university activities, but you can help if you want :D


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    Pff, I'm not afk. I'm just lurking, coz I don't have even time to post, think about the time I have to mod >.<


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    Quote

    [Dodge]...OP keeps bringing his community into the fray...


    Thanks for the update, Louva; it's refreshing to see a voice of reason out there in the weeds. The quote above is really short-sighted; if OP "brought his community into the fray", TLR forums would be smoking with the load we could bring to bear on them. The reason more of us do not enter the conversation, here or on TLR's IRC channel or forums, is that the entire debacle is really beneath our dignity. OP is really the only one here who cares enough to bring his hip waders to TLR and shovel the dung as it piles up... Even so, there is probably not a single member of SWAT who would not like to see TLR back to its old self. Sadly, it does not appear that the reverse is true. :rolleyes:

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    thank you louva... much appreciated


    id like to comment on a few things as the understand of a few events seems to be very much different


    1. some ppl did talk about "propaganda"
    i like to state other propaganda of the past 7 months (sorry that this involves you aswell ld)


    Quote

    [21:13] Louva-Deus: option 3 is TLR dies and swat sets up his site as the new TLR
    [21:13] Louva-Deus: as he has been spreading in email to all server admins
    [21:14] Louva-Deus: and then the community goes up in flames


    yeah i know we already discussed this and we both solved this issue but still it is one of the important matters


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    TLR is the best freelancer community


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    TLR is the center of FL


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    The central hub for all FL communities


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    1000 TLR members in 10 days


    Quote

    OP was banned for flaming the forum


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    http://www.lol-portal.com


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    TLR is the biggest FL community and not even SWAT can change that


    the above are official TLR statements directed against SWAT and other FL communities and there were much more
    It is interesting when a community like TLR where every post that does not fit to the official TLR oppinion gets deleted makes statements about propaganda in a community where the members can express their oppinions based on valid facts.


    2. when did someone give TLR the right to do decisions for the entire FL community without asking them
    exactly this did happen not long ago on the cloaking issue
    and what gives TLR the right to attack SWAT just because we did an opposite decision on this matter?


    3. what gives a TLR owner or a TLR staff member the right to break TLR rules
    do they stand over the laws?
    hereby i mean insults, lies, flames against SWAT and others


    4.

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    13:17 [AzzA`] doh all i was trying to do was talk to him louva.


    that is a pure lie
    The only1 i did talk with was mental. we did talk in private. I did not talk a single word with azza for several weeks until he hacked SWAT. I left mentals chat because he once more insulted me and i dont discuss with a person which throws insults into my direction. Thats why i left. And until Mental did influence azza there was no real problem at all.


    5. It wsa said that i should discuss in a normal way and dont use caps
    I did discuss in a normal way for 7 months... i did do this on the TLR chat... i did talk with the TLR staff and also very often with mental in a calm and normal way. This normal talks were repaid by attacks, insults and lies.
    After 7 months of being calm while being attacked i think i deserve the right to be angry.
    The use of caps was only an option to me since nobody of those which were at that chat did listen to what i did say... instead of a respectful talk i was insulted again... the chat was spammed... and i didnt even get a single chance to say what i had to say. In order to get attention i used caps.


    more i dont have to say at this point of time
    i will prepare the summary and TLR gets the chance to deal with it in a peaceful way... that means if that is an option to them.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
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    uff much to read again - well louva i appreciate your update vm.
    Nevertheless. Azza attacked our server - knowing from TLR admins. It cant be made undone so they are guilty anyway.


    And OP uses the democratic way - he made it public and therefore i am really grateful. As i am member of this community i would like decide for myself whats going on and into what direction. What TLR does seems to me a bit like a dictatorship ;) (at least it seems so a bit)


    And heck the children who plays with the Internet and attacks other sites without taking any responsibility are plain stupid. They simply are children and never get adult enough. Azza seems to be one of them. Sry normally its not my intention to judge about others - but in this case its clear and therefore my judge is valid^^ and hence TLR is guilty for it (not the community itself more the admins and leaders of TLR)


    Arrrrrr i just cant understand that Azza guy.... he thinks OP remains in chat while he attacks his server - one more fact that proves his IQ ;)


    I do my very best to support OP in this and i will do also further steps to give the TLR what they earn - out of this crap...

    Sorry, had to wait on Mental for this but in response to your previous ban on TLR


    Quote

    I got banned for saying that TLR needs more than just a forum in order to survive
    in every other FL community that would have been a normal obvious statement ... in TLR it is a bannable reason and a reason to get insulted by the TLR owner (which suddenly is no bannable reason anymore)


    Reason:


    From what I've been told, that post there was posted by OP, deleted by MentalChaos, then OP posted it again. That was why MentalChaos banned OP-R8R in the first place. And from what I see, that's not defending any site, that looks like you flat out said it would fail again within a month.


    Just figured I get that out there so that OP can use it like everything else is used. And so SWAT can know what is was he was banned for. Call it what you want, but that is OP's "No Reason"

    MantisOlthoi

    What WE the community said is: We stand behind and support our Admin . However, that being said, our Admin would never allow anyone here ( with his knowledge) to hack and try to destroy another server or forum.

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    You post that with one intention, to try and show Op up.




    Only problem is, that from an admin point of view - you've just shown Mental up as lacking experience, and by lacking, I mean a gaping void.


    Lets hope for other users he finds an alternative method than the ban button to resolve issues.

    Quote

    Originally posted by Gunny
    Yeah that's all fine and dandy Louva, but the fuck-up was attacking our server and ruining OUR fun here. That attack was not on Op, it was on US, the community of Crossfire, which is OP's project.


    The problem is that Azza believes that the community must pay for the crimes of the leader. And... so do you guys based on what I have seen in this thread. You are all ready to can the TLR community because of MentalChaos' leadership. You are about to return the favor and ruin the fun over on their site. I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like playing the part of the bigger man to me.


    Quote

    Some of us actually pay money into this server, so we have an interest in seeing it up and running properly without someone hacking it in order to take a stab at Op.


    Ideally there shouldn't be any reason to take a stab at OP. One would have to assume he did something to bring it on. Just a thought.


    Quote

    Like I said before, there is enough documented admissions to bring legal action against all parties involved in the hacking, so do we need to go there or as I said before, go back to our own homes and stay in them?


    So the big question is this: Do ALL the Server owners and Admins want to LOSE everything they worked for, over the years AND is the hacking worth it?


    The problem with that logic is you don't understand the position you will put everyone in if you pursue that. Azza has nothing to lose and even if you manage to shut him down he has friends who will take his place and you will be worse off than before. I'm not saying that you guys should roll over and take what is happening without doing something. All I am saying is that there are better ways to resolve the problem that will bring long-term results.


    Quote

    Originally posted by Centaurian
    Thanks for the update, Louva; it's refreshing to see a voice of reason out there in the weeds. The quote above is really short-sighted; if OP "brought his community into the fray", TLR forums would be smoking with the load we could bring to bear on them. The reason more of us do not enter the conversation, here or on TLR's IRC channel or forums, is that the entire debacle is really beneath our dignity. OP is really the only one here who cares enough to bring his hip waders to TLR and shovel the dung as it piles up... Even so, there is probably not a single member of SWAT who would not like to see TLR back to its old self. Sadly, it does not appear that the reverse is true.


    Part of the point of my post was to show that everyone is being short-sighted in this situation. The people at TLR have their POV on how things are and so do you. The only way to resolve those differences is by talking them out. But judging people for having a different point of view without trying to see it from that angle really puts you on the same level as them because that is what they are doing. You talk about dignity but part of the definition of the word is having an appreciation for the gravity of the situation at hand and you can't do that without understanding both sides of it.


    Quote

    Originally posted by SWAT_OP-R8R
    i like to state other propaganda of the past 7 months (sorry that this involves you aswell ld)


    the above are official TLR statements directed against SWAT and other FL communities and there were much more It is interesting when a community like TLR where every post that does not fit to the official TLR oppinion gets deleted makes statements about propaganda in a community where the members can express their oppinions based on valid facts.


    This doesn't really involve me because propaganda is spreading something specifically to cause harm, and I never did that. Your posts back then behind the backs of the TLR staff and your new ones now saying the site was doomed would qualify as propaganda more than what I said and I think you should have expected they would be deleted. Making a big fuss over it to vilify the admins is definitely taking things too far. As far as the censorship that has been going on at TLR I think you should have talked about it with MentalChaos and found out why it was happening and what you could do to address that issue. Also, saying your site is the biggest, best, or most popular is stupid, but you are also guilty of that in reference to SWAT.


    Quote

    2. when did someone give TLR the right to do decisions for the entire FL community without asking them
    exactly this did happen not long ago on the cloaking issue
    and what gives TLR the right to attack SWAT just because we did an opposite decision on this matter?


    3. what gives a TLR owner or a TLR staff member the right to break TLR rules
    do they stand over the laws?
    hereby i mean insults, lies, flames against SWAT and others


    TLR has been under bad management from its inception. The real question is what can you do to change this problem? It starts by having a calm and collected conversation with MentalChaos and having several examples to show what you are talking about.


    Quote

    The only1 i did talk with was mental. we did talk in private. I did not talk a single word with azza for several weeks until he hacked SWAT. I left mentals chat because he once more insulted me and i dont discuss with a person which throws insults into my direction. Thats why i left. And until Mental did influence azza there was no real problem at all.


    On my site we have a saying: grow a thicker skin. If you can't discard insults for the worthless garbage they are and continue with the discussion at hand, if it is important, then you might not be the kind of leader your community needs. Also, do you have proof that MentalChaos influenced Azza in some way?


    Quote

    The use of caps was only an option to me since nobody of those which were at that chat did listen to what i did say... instead of a respectful talk i was insulted again... the chat was spammed... and i didnt even get a single chance to say what i had to say. In order to get attention i used caps.


    more i dont have to say at this point of time
    i will prepare the summary and TLR gets the chance to deal with it in a peaceful way... that means if that is an option to them.


    This thread is one reason why they don't respect you, and as long as they don't respect you then you are not really in any position to make ultimatums, because the outcome would be predetermined and totally invalid. You have a habit of posting things here on your site that don't really need to be made public. Your excuse is that the public should be informed, but at the same time you are fostering more hostility between these two communities. The SWAT community members don't necessarily care what goes on at TLR and you already know that your posts piss off people in the TLR community, and yet you still do it. It is no wonder why they treat you the way they do.


    Quote

    Originally posted by Huor_Súrion
    uff much to read again - well louva i appreciate your update vm. Nevertheless. Azza attacked our server - knowing from TLR admins. It cant be made undone so they are guilty anyway.


    And OP uses the democratic way - he made it public and therefore i am really grateful. As i am member of this community i would like decide for myself whats going on and into what direction. What TLR does seems to me a bit like a dictatorship (at least it seems so a bit)


    The TLR admins know about the attack now, but not necessarily when it happened. Don't assume that just because Azza wasn't immediately banned. Unless you have a log proving otherwise you need to be careful about what accusations you throw around. Also, what is democracy when only one side of the story has been presented? This is the problem with OP-R8R's log posts: he never shows the other side of the story. You would be interested to know that one of the definitions of a dictator is someone with authority who prescribes things like conduct or usage, or in this case point of view. He gives you the POV you are to use to look at a situation so that the 'vote' outcome is what he wants it to be.


    ---


    I am not trying to pick fights here but I know someone is going to get a little worked up over some of the things I have said. All I ask is that you think about what I am advocating here, and that is to have an open mind that can consider all sides of the story and can understand why both sides are doing what they are doing. Making decisions based on only half the story is like having one of your legs chopped off right before you run a marathon. Your decisions will not be fair or unbiased.


    what mental fails to say is that this was a reply to post by TLR_tech stating that the forum is just temporarily and will be shut down and "maybe" transfered in about 1 month
    what i said on the TLR forum was a clear statement about what happens if that really happens with the suggestion to do it "DIFFERENT"


    It is very easy to blame someone for something if not the full logs are shown or the reason why things were said are hidden.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

    All thats is very interesting Louva but I do have 3 questions:



    Quote

    The problem with that logic is you don't understand the position you will put everyone in if you pursue that. Azza has nothing to lose and even if you manage to shut him down he has friends who will take his place and you will be worse off than before.


    1.- Does this means that if we dont comply to what Azza and his gang wants we are under a constant threath of being hacked?


    I ask you this cause where I live we call that blackmailing...its like to sit on a table to talk when you put a gun over the table...nice way to talk with freedom...


    2.- I dont see in any of your logs those in that Knife talks about how he attacked SWAT because he thinks OP is with Torch...or somethng like that...Indeed he did attack SP cause he says that "torch" has moderator privileges in SP...
    Isnt this relevant on this issue?


    3.- What does guarrantee us or any other FL comunity that if in the future they dont agree with any decision or point of view of the actual TLR administration, the consequence will be an attack to their sites?



    Quote


    13:14 [AzzA`] why would it matter if tlr had 3 members
    13:14 [AzzA`] cos it wouldn't bother me at all i would still use it


    Looks like the attacker has no real interest in TLR working...

    Quote

    Originally posted by Louva-Deus
    Unless you have a log proving otherwise you need to be careful about what accusations you throw around.


    Scroll up. Read my post - especially the part which mentions what happened at #SWAT-Portal and AzzA's joy of us & starport being down.

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    Quote

    The problem is that Azza believes that the community must pay for the crimes of the leader. And... so do you guys based on what I have seen in this thread. You are all ready to can the TLR community because of MentalChaos' leadership. You are about to return the favor and ruin the fun over on their site. I'm sorry but that doesn't sound like playing the part of the bigger man to me.


    thats not correct
    we always have stated to have a problem with the TLR leadership and how they act towards others
    not at a single point of time we have done damage to TLR itself or the visitors there... the opposite is the case as i am still there to help them
    not a single time one of the members at TLR got attacked by us


    Quote

    The problem with that logic is you don't understand the position you will put everyone in if you pursue that. Azza has nothing to lose and even if you manage to shut him down he has friends who will take his place and you will be worse off than before. I'm not saying that you guys should roll over and take what is happening without doing something. All I am saying is that there are better ways to resolve the problem that will bring long-term results.


    i dealt with azza when he hacked mentals TLR account... so did i when he did other shit
    he has to be stopped once and forever coz he will never stop out of its own
    he and those others which are responsible for the attacks will pay - so simple is that


    Quote

    Part of the point of my post was to show that everyone is being short-sighted in this situation. The people at TLR have their POV on how things are and so do you. The only way to resolve those differences is by talking them out. But judging people for having a different point of view without trying to see it from that angle really puts you on the same level as them because that is what they are doing. You talk about dignity but part of the definition of the word is having an appreciation for the gravity of the situation at hand and you can't do that without understanding both sides of it.


    we are not judging because points of views
    we are judging because all the attacks against us


    Quote

    This doesn't really involve me because propaganda is spreading something specifically to cause harm, and I never did that. Your posts back then behind the backs of the TLR staff and your new ones now saying the site was doomed would qualify as propaganda more than what I said and I think you should have expected they would be deleted. Making a big fuss over it to vilify the admins is definitely taking things too far. As far as the censorship that has been going on at TLR I think you should have talked about it with MentalChaos and found out why it was happening and what you could do to address that issue. Also, saying your site is the biggest, best, or most popular is stupid, but you are also guilty of that in reference to SWAT.


    you should really make a difference between propaganda and facts
    Here at SWAT only the facts are important.
    And not a statement that i have done was not based on the facts. And for sure I never made statements as SWAT is the best or most popular. Only when TLR made such statements i replied them by editing my posts.


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    TLR has been under bad management from its inception. The real question is what can you do to change this problem? It starts by having a calm and collected conversation with MentalChaos and having several examples to show what you are talking about.


    I had calm discussions with mental telling him what he does wrong and how he could do it better.
    He ignored these suggestions and the way he acted afterwards made the situation even worse. Every following discussion where i tried to talk with him in a normal way did end with me leaving the chat because he started to insult me or other members... even members of his own community.
    Mentalchaos did lie to me several times in the same way he did lie to his own community. I consider this guy abusive, untrustworthy and not able to lead an online community. And you cant tell me that you think different.


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    On my site we have a saying: grow a thicker skin. If you can't discard insults for the worthless garbage they are and continue with the discussion at hand, if it is important, then you might not be the kind of leader your community needs. Also, do you have proof that MentalChaos influenced Azza in some way?


    7 months of being calm is a VERY thick skin.
    and yes i have a proof (not only one).


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    This thread is one reason why they don't respect you, and as long as they don't respect you then you are not really in any position to make ultimatums, because the outcome would be predetermined and totally invalid. You have a habit of posting things here on your site that don't really need to be made public. Your excuse is that the public should be informed, but at the same time you are fostering more hostility between these two communities. The SWAT community members don't necessarily care what goes on at TLR and you already know that your posts piss off people in the TLR community, and yet you still do it. It is no wonder why they treat you the way they do.


    And their actions are reason why i disrespect them and why this thread does even exist. A respect towards a leader like mentalchaos will never exist as his actions dont deserve such a respect. Attacks against us will be made public and they have to be made public. Im not going to take a punch im my face without defending myself. And i wont watch how someone tries to damage my community without acting. We are the ones which get attacked and we deserve every right to defend us. Something nobody should ever forget. The SWAT members dont care about what happens at TLR, there you are right. But they care when their community gets attacked and when our community gets treaten in such a shit way.
    Maybe posting the logs causes hostility towards TLR... very likely it does. But we dont have to accept that TLR is the only community being allowed acting hostile towards others.


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    The TLR admins know about the attack now, but not necessarily when it happened. Don't assume that just because Azza wasn't immediately banned. Unless you have a log proving otherwise you need to be careful about what accusations you throw around. Also, what is democracy when only one side of the story has been presented? This is the problem with OP-R8R's log posts: he never shows the other side of the story. You would be interested to know that one of the definitions of a dictator is someone with authority who prescribes things like conduct or usage, or in this case point of view. He gives you the POV you are to use to look at a situation so that the 'vote' outcome is what he wants it to be.


    The TLR admins/owner were aware of the attack(s) against SWAT as they happened because mental did talk with azza, because mental was on the TLR chat while there the hacking attacks were planned, because mental encouraged azza to attack SWAT instead of Starport. The attack happend after mental spoke with azza and there are proofs. Mentalchaos is leader of TLR and owner of the LR channel. He was there when from that channel attacks were done against SWAT. It would have been his duty to stop those attacks but he permitted them. Legally i could go to the TLR host now and lay down the logs and proofs about the attack and TLR would loose its server as the owner permitted illegal activities. I am not quiete sure about q-net but i think it is also guidelines and policies dealing with such permitted attacks.
    TLR/TLR administration can be glad that I have not initiated such steps (yet) in order to give them the chance to do neccessary changes and solve the problems.
    Not only one site has been presented here as i have posted the full chat logs with everything that has been said... uneditied. I also have posted a log about what i have said on the TLR forum when i got banned here (unedited). When I or any other SWAT member has done anything bad, when we said anything that was directed against TLR then this is shown on the logs aswell. I did never hide anything from my community as trust is most important here. Both sides of view have been presented here and ppl were able to get their own oppinion based on the full logs which show both sides. To claim that i only presented one site is absolutly not true and everyone here knows this. I have even asked the members of this community to ignore their oppinion about TLR and judge only based on the facts. I even posted what i wrote on the TLR and for what i got banned. One sided is what mental tells ppl about that reason as he never told them anything about the post that was done by TLR_tech before. A post which lets my reply look very much different and not being a flame or an attack. That much about presenting both sides (something which i for sure did).
    The ppl here voted about the future of SWAT... the MEMBERS of THIS community. So why do ppl from TLR think they have the right to come here and manipulate the vote? Why do they think they have the right to tell us what we have to do?


    Talking about 2 sides... if the problems are because of SWAT like TLR loves to claim then why did SWAT try to help in the past months, why did SWAT not have any problems with other sites. How comes that if only others are responsible for TLRs bad reputation the entire TLR staff did leave. How comes that other community like freelancercommunity.net decided (a few weeks ago) to ignore TLR and exclude TLR from the FL community alliance (because of the bad treatment from TLR in the past). How comes that communities such as starport are also not really friendly to TLR. How comes that so many ppl have left TLR (admins, modders, coders, players)?
    Is SWAT responsible for that?
    Are others responsible for that?
    OR is it more likely that the problems are caused by TLR?


    Fact is if TLR wouldnt have done shit to us or others then we wouldnt have been forced to show these attacks to the members of OUR community.
    "where lightning is there also is thunder"



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    2.- I dont see in any of your logs those in that Knife talks about how he attacked SWAT because he thinks OP is with Torch...or somethng like that...Indeed he did attack SP cause he says that "torch" has moderator privileges in SP...
    Isnt this relevant on this issue?


    Knife stated that i am allied with torch and that torch meanwhile has control over SWAT
    I told knife that i would prefer to work together with all FL communities (including) torchs but not with a community leader which had lied and insulted me like mental did.
    That seems to be reason enough to make claims that torch is meanwhile leading SWAT.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
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