EU's attack on technology

There are 32 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by Michael.

  • Ok, I know I live in EU as well as most here, but...



    EU is constantly attacking the world technology companies by inventing bulls**t laws (like forcing webs to force people to accept that cookies exist, surprise! and are used, or like the antitrust and antimonopoly laws), bs taxes or tax raising (raising 3% because they dont pay enough for politicians), and bs stories to fine companies around the world literally billions, taking in account there are few hundred companies "fined" by an institution which actually doesnt rule over anything at all.


    First they started with small fines in millions, until last year they fined (or tried?) Google with 5% (like 3.000 million) of its value because one guy, of a couple, made a prescholar informatics class made looking website (I checked that web, it literally had under 10 buttons! No background images, just one color!) that searches prices to compare, using google's own search engine, and complained they didnt rank higher than million visits price comparation webs, even though he appeared on local news !(much wow, local news, definitely more important than a ranking system based on visits and usage) Blaming google for not being placed on top of successful sites, funny.


    Ok. Now...

    Google may have to make major changes to Android in response to a forthcoming fine in Europe - The Washington Post

    Or just google it... if you dont like accepting pointless popups and info windows enforced by more "EU laws" from past. Aware, cookies exist, accept or go elsewhere.


    But main part would be, quote:

    " face an anti-competitive choice: Set Google Search as the default search service and offer Google’s Chrome browser, or lose access to Android’s popular app store. "

    But well, other funny things in there...


    Now they want to fine, not google or android, but Alphabet, with 10 % of the entire freaking history of income of the main company instead of the "guilty" company google, of over 11 Billion dollars, because anonymous stuff complained they are FORCED to use google search to be able to use google play store. What the actual fk ?


    1. First, thats obvious bulls**t its lies, taking as example any game from GOOGLE Play store, like Planet Commander (which I did not play):

    details?id=com.cubesoftware.spaceconflictgame

    Can you click it here ? And on any other browser thats not Google Chrome, right ? On phone its same, you get option to select "open with internet" (whatever app you have on your phone) and "Open with google play", wheres the restriction ?? If you cant open it on your damn iPhone thats because iPhone with Apple store is the one that monopolizes everything, not google.


    2. Second, what IS Google Play Stores name ? Exactly, GOOGLE's store. They made android's popular app store, they own it, cant be forced to give it away or anything, it's their intellectual property. So what if they make deals with phonemakers to preinstall them? Phonemakers WANT their apps because they are best for themselves. Why arent they fining apple store or iStore instead ? Its visible above and same since ever ( as sometimes it annoyed me it asked if I want to use google or old phone browsers) that there's no such thing as restrictions to google apps, try googling apple store ! What do you get ?


    Sign in - Apple or try googling apple store if link expired or whatever.


    Yeah, insert your apple ID here to enter apple store. How about that, I cant even watch apps in apple store without owning something from them. Cant open it on PC or anything.

    What does it say in link even, "secure".store.apple and "account" and "login or gtfo", what does it say on google's store, play.google.com/store, end of, no secure no login no bs.

    So trustable, not monopolizing at all. Can't even use international USB cables or sound jacks for earphones on their phones, they cant even repair their own devices even if paid!


    In the end...

    My main problem with this is that taking away money as well as INCOME (through expensive changes in laws and filtering and etc) from technological companies, as to microsoft before, google, and hundred others, and creating taxes out of their asses, they are literally slowing down the technological advancement of humankind. No/less money to invest in testing your favourite new PC CPUs, android devices, graphic cards, means less advancement in them. EU seems to want to cause the fall of europe, as visible/proven that its already falling on several charts, and even trying to pull down rest of human kind with it. What is left to ruin ?

    On phone, its same as on PC, I'm not forced to use Google Chrome or google search engine instead of bing or whatever, I do it because its best, for me at least.

    Where does even this money go ? To some corrupt politician's pockets? What will be the usefulness in that? Dont even dream any of it will go to pensions or anything good.


    I am a bit curious what is OP's opinion on this ilegally high fine (as it says on few places that fines on the income of the root company instead of the "guilty" one is actually illegal and never done before). And how can this money stealing bs affect technology advancement ? Just, ignoring the other topics of things going wrong in EU... opinions and all. Just curious about the fines part and stupid new laws.


    Late edit: I don't even understand how can something made out of a trading/economy union can override laws in countries (like whatever deals a country makes with a company) and fine to bankrupcy companies that are not inside EU... its like saying china wants to fine european cars for being too good or so.


    PS2: Its also funny how just the fines on google this year are more than Trump's wall twice over, as it was estimated to cost 7 billion or so, and fines are 14billion.

  • Do you want my opinion or do you want me to correct you on the stuff above?

    A good bunch of it is not the way you described it.


    I can go through every point you made and show you that its worth to read more than just the headlines of some articles on the internet if you want to.

    But not today.

    There is an attack on technology... yes... and to a very large amount it is justifiable.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • So you think its fine trying to bankrupt a company because one of it's smaller root companies got deals from phonemakers to have their apps on ? Whats the point of deals in the first place anyway ? Isn't it their business what they decide to use in their creations? Dont like, dont buy! The part of not being able to use other browsers than google chrome to reach google store is obvious bogus, right? 10% of the income of ALL TIME, just few months ago they said they prepared saved up money for investments/improvement, and their available money ammount was smaller than this 11 billion fine. A tech company uses its earnings in all kind of actual work, investigations, tests, creation, and especially this one, like deep mind AI, google fiber, etc, not stores it up in bank.


    Again, the other topics not related to these idiotic fines that are slowing down the technological advance, dont matter... the displease is just growing, and I have my sources, like actually living in the affected places, not what biased mainstream media says. Including the betrayal of Sanchez to the country.

  • again, not true

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • So there is no fine, ok. (as that was the last post's topic, and if you think it's fine/good/right in your view, and you didnt specify more) All happy children of the rainbow, just like humanity's future.


    PS: Well, it was just to see some diff ways of thinking, and I got it, thanx :D Can consider topic over for me, I'm not going to go on about this. If anyone else has a say, thats cool.

  • Michael, if you imply to know what I am going to say why do you even ask for an opinion?


    I did never say that there is no fine, but what you wrote is still not correct.

    Like I wrote, nice headlines but your conclusions (or where ever these conclusions come from) are wrong.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Well, last time, I just asked if you think doing so many crazy fines on alphabet, or other companies that are not even EU property n all is fine in your view, or agree with it, and you say "not true" and "wrong", so, shrugs. Was just nothing to go on with, not that I imply knowing you will say "wrong", not sure where you got this from. Just wanted other opinions, so I could advance mine.


  • I also said:

    But not today.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Just hope you will be able to ignore the topics not related to technology/fines... that was a bit of rant, my bad. Same bs happened against microsoft for having windows internet explorer coming with windows... not like it stops people from using other browsers, what monopoly? Adding a free feature to its own product? Its all just crazy, when you actually cant install what you want on an iPhone or Macbook, restricting your options, doors, freedoms, etc. Whats next, banning windows explorer from windows OS ? But that kid over there made a potentially better files explorer, dont enforce ur system on your own system Im buying xD It's as stupid as forcing McDonalds to offer Burger King food on their menu, no showing off their own products lol

  • no, i wont be able to do that

    because its relevant

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I am fine with fines of big technology companies. And its not that you Michael cannot switch search engines or try to access other stores - its about that there plenty other normal users who dont know how this works - and i believe those numbers are much greater than those who know how all this works.


    Also somehow these big tech companies needs to get involved into the communities - that is also bearing the financial costs to keep communities running. I mean they pay "most of" their taxes in the US and not in Europe (some just pay nearly nothing here) - but they use the infrastructure others have or had to build and pay and they make huge profits dealing with personal data which dont return to the public. This money can be used to invest in infrastructure or other culture stuff, the big companies dont do or avoid by shifting profits out of the reach of EU.

  • Ok, lets get started with it.

    First off, you have a very negative and biased view on this topic. The bad EU which terrorizes the poor companies and does decisions without asking every citizen for their opinion.

    If you ever want to understand what really happens you should get rid of this one-sided point of view.

    As you might have noticed specific EU regulations even had an impact on this website and forced me to act. Yet, I am not willing to see it in a negative way, because it is not negative. Behind every decision, behind every regulation there is a positive intention.


    From all that you wrote I would say that roughly 5% is correct.

    The EU does overregulate, thats a fact. (that is where I agree with you) But the EU does that with a good intention in mind.

    Lets just take the General Data Protection Regulation or the proposed changes to Article 13. The protection of consumer data and the protection of copyrighted material was overdue and shows that the EU acts with good intention.

    At the same time it shows that these laws and regulations are written by politicians, not by people which actually know how the internet works.

    It is great that the GDPR protects the data of customers from the influence of of the big companies (google, facebook, etc.)... but it is overregulated in terms of small websites which have absolutely no intention to collect user data. It is a sick condition that a small company or even a club/society has to follow the same rules that the big players on the market have to follow. It is a terrible situation that a contact form on a website of a small flower shop is considered to be the same data privacy risk as google or facebook. "Aunt Claras Flower Shop" is violating your customer rights.

    The EU overregulated in this example because it didnt know a better solution. The intention to protect the customer data is still good and valid.

    I dont even thing that the EU is the main problem here. The EU will never sue the small flower shop. But asshole lawyers that specialized on such a business model will. These vultures search the web to use existing laws and regulations again the people in order to make profit. The good intention of the EU regulation is used for bad practices by such people.

    The Article 13 crap (actually I didnt want to judge about it) is not much different. The EU has a good intention. Unfortunatly the first time in history the politics are not decades behind existing technology. This time decisions were to be done without having working technology at hand. Only one company has working upload filters and "working" is a very subjective expression here since these filters are absolutely not perfect.

    I can not blame the EU for their intention to protect data and property... its just that the guys which wrote Article 13 dont seem to know that we have no existing technology that can enforce this regulation in a reliable way (without causing more problems than it would solve).

    One thing to mention at this point is that not the people of the EU stopped Article 13. The delegates did. At no point they were forced to vote against it... they made that decision. Yes the people made them aware of the problems but in the end it still was the decision of the delegates which stopped the law. That in my eyes proves that the EU is a working system which does not force ill-adviced decisions.


    You are wrong about the 7 new articles, they didnt get preapproved. These articles were nothing but prewritten suggestions that required to be approved in a vote. That is the normal process how laws and regulations get done (in almost every democratic country). If you believe that the delegates meet and discuss about how to write the content of a law then you are wrong. Delegates get to read prewritten suggestions and then they simply vote. Best condition of course would be if they actually understand what the words in these suggestions actually mean (thats not guaranteed).


    You have been mentioning Traian Basescu and that the EU prevented the impeachment. That is not even remotely correct. The impeachment vote had clear conditions that never were met. I am no expert on national rules on impeachment but generally impeachment only works if the majority votes against the guy that they want to impeach. That means that at least more than 50% of all people which have the voting right have to vote for an impeachment. That never happened. Even if the majority of the people that voted for impeachment is higher than the people which voted against impeachment such an impeachment can fail if enough people refused to vote. And exactly that was the case in Basecus impeachment vote.

    The only thing the EU did was to voice concerns regarding the opponent which had his own legal troubles at that time. But that is no wrong doing of the EU. Pointing out that the coin has a 2nd side is legit.


    The situation in Spain is a bit more complicated than your views on it. I could go in detail but that would go so far off topic that we probably never would find a way back.

    Just to spoil it for you... in my eyes the EU respected existing contracts by doing what it did.


    Anyways, back to the "attacking technology" topic.

    You went over that Cookie comment like it would be absurd.... like it would be the most normal thing in the world. Go and ask your grandparents if you can check their cookies. You might realize that their reaction will be different than your expectation.

    Generally I got the impression that you have a fixed point of view from which you do not realize what happens outside of it. What you see normal is not neccesarily normal for others. Like a pro gamer that complains about n00bs because he/she cant remember how it was when he/she was a n00b years ago. I suggest you start leaving your point of view now and then in order to get a different perspective on situations.


    You talk about antitrust and antimonopoly regulations like it would be something bad.

    Do you really think that it is better if a monopoly has full control over the entire market? Do you think that is a good idea that the company XYZ has a monopoly on ... lets say ... water and starts to charge you 10€ per bottle just because they can?

    These regulations ensure that customers are protected from companies. These regulations ensure competition, fairplay and overall even the stability of the market. Without these regulations, especially on the technology market there wouldnt be any innovation. Why would Microsoft have to improve their products if there are no competitors? They could sell their same product for the next 100-200 years.

    Dont even bother to tell me "but companies never would do that". They always did and they always will do. The companies and managers have the obligation to make the highest amount of profit. They dont serve the customers, they serve the share holders. Period. A company, trust, monopoly which sees the chance to make profit will do exactly that, regardless of the consequences for everyone else. Capitalsm is driven by greed. Thats how the system works.

    I highly recommend that you change your opinion on antitrust and antimonopoly regulations because right now you are on a path into a very dark future.


    Taxes btw. are not raised to pay politicians. What they get is miniscule compared to the taxes. The tax increases go into social projects, schools, infrastucture, subsidies, support for countries with struggling economies, etc.

    Dont even try to make taxes look bad. Yes, it hurts to pay them but without them we wouldnt have a working infrastructure, education and social systems in our countries. All the stuff that keeps our society running is paid with taxes.


    Are the fines for companies justified?

    ASBSOLUTELY!

    What google has to pay 5%... at this point I have to ask "why not more?".

    Lets stick to the number aspect here a bit before we look at the reason.

    You wrote that they have to pay 5% which results in 3000 million$. I highly question these numbers.

    After the first quarter of 2018 Alphabet (googles parent company) valued at $739 billion. Of course there are more companies in Alphabet than just google but in 2017 it was said that google is responsible for more than 90% of Alphabets revenue. I dont have current numbers and I am way too lazy to google for it (haha) but 3000 million$ looks more like 0.5% value.

    The true story behind is that the height of the fine represents ONE DAY of Alphabets revenue.

    You wont see me shed tears when google only earns money on 364 days a year instead of 365.

    That is a one day fine for a market manipulation that google probably had done over a period 2 decades. That fine is laughable.

    What? Which market manipulation?

    And here we come to the reasons why google/alphabet was fined.

    Google manipulated the search results in a way that google products always had better ranking eventhough the criteria of other products would have place them higher.

    What does it mean to have the higher ranking? yes... more website visitors, more customers, higher ratings, more ad revenue... in the end this manipulation has direct influence on the growth of other companies and even on the stock markets. Google manipulated the market, prevented that other companies could grow and instead collected the billions of revenues from their priorized own products to enrich the own company.

    Dont get me wrong... I like google... but its such an asshole company.

    The fine is absolutely justified and the height in my eyes laughable. Google made way more money with the manipulation than it was fined for.

    The one day fine wont hurt google much. The annual growth is at least 4 times higher than the fine. Google it.



    Google and Android mobile phones.

    Yes thats also such a thing.

    I am not sure if you understood the problem correctly. I think you probably didnt.

    You are right, if put the url of the play store in my browser I can access it no matter if I use chrome, firefox, opera, edge or whatever else I have installed. It also does not matter if I do that on PC or my mobile phone.

    But that is not what the article said and thats now why the EU is preparing fines for google.

    As customer you are free to install and use whatever app you want on your mobile device.

    You have that choice, I have that choice.

    Phone manufacturers DO NOT have that choice.

    Already today Google is dictating which apps phone manufacturers have to pre-install on their phones if they want to use Android as OS. Did you never wonder why your new phone is already full with google apps that you actually dont want, dont need and partly even cant uninstall without rooting your phone?

    Google is telling Samsung, LG, HTC, etc what they have to install and also tells them which alternatives are not allowed on these mobile devices. Mobile devices are full of bloatware (partly) because google said so.

    The manufacturers cant say "no" because then they all of a sudden dont get an Android license anymore.

    Google is abusing its power on the market to influence the manufacturers and in the end also the customers.

    Lets face it... you know how use a mobile phone and how to install all the different apps. The majority of customers however sticks to what already is installed.

    And everytime people use the pre-installed Chrome google will log the user data and make even more money.

    Google makes money on the android market by "blackmailing" the manufacturers.

    The upcoming fines are justified. Googles dirty business practices backfires.

    The playstore stuff you mentioned is from license of a not yet released Android version. Today you can visit the playstore with every browser... but if google does not change its license you better get used to the idea that other browsers wont work anymore.


    Btw. there have been fines on similar business practices before on PC software.


    Why isnt that a deal on IPhone?

    Simply said because there is no conflict of interest. Apple is the hardware manufacturer and also the company which developed the software.


    10% fine of Alphabet resulting in only 11 Billion$ again appears to be VERY low. Reminder, Alphabet is worth 739 billion dollar.

    Why is Alphabet fined and not google?

    Because the company google is not responsible for the development and licensing of the Android OS.

    With the foundation of Alphabet the old Google company outsourced everything that is not related to the search engine and its associated products to Alphabet and its subsidiaries.

    With other words: search engine + the other online tools and their ad revenue = google.

    Everything else = Alphabet (or other subsidiaries).

    It was googles decision to do this a few years ago and if the license contract of the android OS is between Alphabet and the hardware manufacturers then Alphabet is the right company to be fined.

    Again, I wont shed a tear.


    Oh, here you have two points.


    1) I explained that above already. Wont repeat it ;)


    2) Its a nice and simple explanation you have there. Its called google and so google has the say. Well, its also called World Wide Web... and so far I have not seen a spider that told me what I have to do.

    Jokes aside.

    Of course can google set rules for the play store. It is their website.

    They can turn it into a subscription model and put a big lock infront of it. They have to watch the customers and app creators leave but its their right to do it.

    What they dont have a right to is to dictate the way how customers connect to the store. And for sure they have no right to dictate such stupid restrictions to hardware manufacturers.

    What customers and manufacturers put on their phones simply isnt googles business.

    I already explain why Iphones the app store there do not have such conflicts of interest. Of course does the Iphone manufacturer put the app store on that device... its the same company. And well... its pointless to go to the apple store if you dont have an Iphone.

    The comparison of Iphone and Android phones here defies any logic.


    Quote

    My main problem with this is that taking away money as well as INCOME (through expensive changes in laws and filtering and etc) from technological companies, as to microsoft before, google, and hundred others, and creating taxes out of their asses, they are literally slowing down the technological advancement of humankind.

    I dont even think that these companies even notice the fines. It does not hurt them, it does not bankrupt them, it does not lead to layoffs nor does it have any effect on development.

    Whats slowing down technological advancement of humankind is the business practices of these companies because they hurt other companies, prevent competition and in the end also prevent that new innovative ideas get a chance.

    But maybe you can tell me which innovations came from google and microsoft lately?

    Most technological innovations came from small companies... thats a fact.


    Quote

    EU seems to want to cause the fall of europe, as visible/proven that its already falling on several charts, and even trying to pull down rest of human kind with it. What is left to ruin ?

    WOW

    Do we speak of the same europe that I live in? because... its doing fine.

    In the past 15 years there always have been people claim "europe will fail... next month for sure, bla bla", and so far I have not seen the slightest indicator for that to be true.

    Europe currently is going better than most other regions of the world.

    I dont see it fail, not from economical aspects nor from political issues. There simply is no reason, no indication that it could fail.



    Oh almost through....

    Taxes... nice topic.

    Ok, I am from germany. If I am going to work in France then where do I have to pay my income tax? Of course in the country where I am living. Germany.

    Germany has taxation contracts with over 70 other countries and above that taxation contracts there is the EU regulation (which btw. explain your question somewhat below why the EU can make such decisions -> the EU has the right to do that because the countries decided so long ago -> EU laws are above country laws in many areas (not in all)).

    This generally is a problem because companies like google makes business in countries and makes profit without ever paying taxes. Billions of € are lost every year because google and co dont pay taxes eventhough they are active in our contries and take our money. Thats a problem.

    If I would be in the position to make decision I would try to change the taxation system into one where taxes are paid where profit is made. That would be fair.


    btw. just to give you a few numbers on taxes here in germany.

    The max income tax is 42%, you dont have to be a millionair to pay that... the limit to reach it is relative moderate.

    Companies pay between 7% and 36% depending on their annual profit.

    That google has to pay a one day fine or 5% or even 10% is a joke.


    Google takes money from ad revenues that are produced in our contries, does not pay any taxes on that money (taxes our countries might need to finanance social projects) and then they also manipulate markets to ensure that other companies which potentially are located in our contries earn less money. This of course means that these other companies (which are located in european countries) pay less taxes since their income due to googles market manipulation is smaller.

    That means google is screwing european citizens twice with their shitty business model.

    We cant do much about googles tax avoidance (its just the way it is - there currently is no legal way to prevent it) but we can at least fine google for their shady business practices which are a clear violation of existing law.



    You wanted my opinion on the matter... here you have it.

    You are free to question this stuff... I can substantiate that stuff with further number, statistics, laws etc... I just dont think we really have to go that much into detail.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I do wish to keep it short so, splitting in topics.


    Tech companies:

    I understand and agree with the part of raising taxes to tech companies, while its taxed on earnings made in that specific country and all. It's not because theres not enough money though, but whatever. That tax already existed though, the change was adding 3% more, and specific improvements to the taxing system.


    5% OF THE INCOME, NOT WORTH/value OF THE COMPANY, which includes funding from outside sources (shareholders, investors, etc), was only because that highschool kid level price comparing web complaining they didnt rank high on google searches, above sites with millions of users, because google lowered them, not because they didnt earn the fame. That page made by one person would never earn millions, but gets to damage 3000 million to a big one for crying out loud they were not ranked higher than actually successful sites on google's own engine? Use bing or whatever then !


    10% OF THE INCOME again, not company's total worth/value of 700Bill, is what the fine is and not of the profit made in Europe, or on android devices, but of whole main company... over a lie on how they use their own systems, I had several phones, two samsungs included and they did not come with google chrome, I personally added it because had more, easy, options and better, and the fine is because they DID this since over 5 years ago, not because they "plan to do it in future" so I wouldnt be able to use other browsers or so. What do you mean about a fine on something that's not yet done ?? Thats like putting one to jail for future crimes, its unreal, and the investigation was going since 5 years ago, surely this "unreleased android" you mention didnt exist by then right? If they actually DID that, without changing their minds if its even true (even though indeed I never seen that info), AFTER they do such restrictions AND release it, then yes they would deserve a fine... maybe ? Because all other companies do that and WORSE and get nothing (I think), its the reason why they cant use anything else than android.


    Still, its quite bs BECAUSE they are the ones making the platform with MOST FREEDOM of all other. How can you compare it with apple where you cant install apps from other sources (unlike on android) or even see stuff without owning an apple device ? You say restricting access to people is logical but giving them an easy tool to access it efficently is monopoly? So even if you used their apple OS on a computer, you cant see their stuff even though you CAN use their apple store apps on your PC's OS, but you can't since you dont have your security login. And their customer service is in denial:

    But Apple is good, no monopoly, everyone else bad. Its not just this channel which got affected by it, its pretty much everyone, dont repair, just pay for new one n done.


    Android isnt FORCED on phone manufacturers, they ASK to make deals to have the best system in their current opinion on their devices, there's no way google can force samsung to install android over... uhm... windows phone or apple iOs which both are reserved to their own devices ? Not many potentially better systems, I think. Think they could get iOS license without being forced to install apple store or other Apple software ???


    About jokes:

    "Well, its also called World Wide Web... and so far I have not seen a spider that told me what I have to do." Maybe article 13, 11 and internet communist dictatorship EU ? Cant deny it says what you have to do on WWW. Did I forget last attempt to control internet which actually made the gov of a country put on the anonymous mask? Yes, every decision is made with gooood intentions, so they control our opinions and restrict our freedoms, like apple, where if you complain on a video you get legally sued, and gets no fine. Here is an article (group of articles) to protect the copyrights of the poor creators, except it kills small creators and has a little bonus in where it says you cant talk about politics that dont support EU's one. A cake with a sour icing on top? Rather a cake with nails inside it. Seven good articles, and two rotten. If it was good, there would be no reason to reject it.

    Its called Apple, so apple has the say is logical for you even up to the point of restricting the vision of their wares, ok. But google cant.


    About politics, corruption and death of EU (sigh, I did wish I didnt mention this):

    Because you just saw improvements last 3 years right ? Nothing getting worse. No new coalition against EU, no merkel losing all support, and her image burning in half the countries of europe, asia and USA itself. No increasing number of countries tired of the bs, for example what you said of EU laws above country laws, wrong, this is not the United States of Europe... yet, that is. EU is an ECOMONIC alliance, not military like OTAN and not governamental like, USA over its own states, it cannot rule over how people live or how they talk IRL or on internet, just ECONOMY topics. Countries do approve things democratically voted in something the country itself had a chance to vote in. There was no voting for what merkel is doing, therefore its technically unilaterally enforced undemocratically. There is no law or excuse or reason to enforce something not voted on. Also, no things getting worse than just spontaneus street attacks, public property destruction or rapes, like dissapearance of 1500 children done by children of the rainbow or "asians" (blame bruce lee) for rape gangs, or beheadings all over europe and outside like in south africa, of european people which Merkel as well as serveral allied governments banning even media from reporting the truth of this (so much about freedom of speech huh), or police actually not interfering/doing their job in cases related with children of the rainbow to not get framed as racist which lowers the official number of crimes since "theres nothing we can do" as cops themselves say, cant report a roberry in your own house by 3 arabs oops I mean asians because its racist which actually happened to a friend IRL/neighbour. It did NOT get archived or anything, its not even considered a real theft unless the owner is in the house and there is beating... there was a knife left on the bed but luckly nobody home. How would you feel if that was your case? You cant do anything about it.


    I think you are actually confusing the zone of europe you live in, like germany's improvements, and their allies, with the ACTUAL europe. YES, germany is doing better, and earning favors for being so nice and giving money (to countries that submit, that is) that they are originally robbing from other countries. Sorry, it is just how things actually (seem to?) work outside your country, and are being reported with official numbers in the country I was born in (but not living in anymore), including the ammount in million of tons of wood being taken away illegally (it IS definitely going outside the country and not being managed by our country), poisoning of town mayor's families fighting the illegal trade/theft of wood (both wife and daughters), causing landslides n all, a LOT of other abuses, and to be short... how "european" companies work with their own rules killing the companies inside the country, which reminds me of how EU complains about USA based tech companies. Another thing would be with the deal with Greece where it said it would return all earnings from the shares buying and the return was in 100-200 hundred millions each year, instead of over 3 billion just up to this year. Few other countries are doing better too, like belgium and their 600 million worth football team and all, who is not in touch with the rest of europe.


    No, europe as a whole is not doing fine and last time I said EU is breaking down, which you also said is wrong, there wasnt even a talk about coalition against EU. Now there are 12 countries against EU, facing EU's retarded economic threads over laws breaching the sovereignity of those countries and it wont end at this since I know at least one more country that's going to join it once the prez which is already being fought against, is gone. Merkel recently made an emergency meeting with just 14 out of 28 current EU countries (aka not a majority) and it STILL went BAD for her.


    All this an improvement in your eyes, from how it was over a decade ago when countries were fighting to join the attractive EU (like romania, bulgary, turkey, etc), and there were no threats flying away between countries or dramas or fighting to get ridd of EU's influence, just desires to improve shenghen space and make things better. Not desires to restrict public opinions, freedom of speech or countries' govs.


    IF EU DECISIONS WOULD BE GOOD, IT WOULDNT NEED TO THREATEN AND ENFORCE IT! It would advertise/sell them so it gets bought. That's all.

  • ok... it seems you are not willing to think about a different point of view.

    I got the feeling that you completely ignore what I wrote...


    bad evil EU... good google

    no matter what I say and no matter how detailed I try to explain stuff you are not really interested to understand how stuff works and how stuff has to work.


    I wont further comment on your reply... its pointless.

    Maybe you really think that highschool kids deserve unfair treatment or are simply not worth the effort. In my eyes it is not relevant if google got caught in a wrong doing against highschool kids or a wrong doing against a company. The only thing that matters is that google got caught. And the chances that google did the same with thousands of other companies is very close to 100%. This fine might motivate google to stop this shit now. The EU did the only right thing.


    Your last sentense is relevant. I project it into this community and our FL server.

    We have rules here and on the CF server. These rules are GOOD (just like most of the EU decisions). And still we require GRs, Moderators and Admins to enforce these rules. No matter how good the rules are and no matter how much we explain them to the people... there always will be some assholes violating them.

    And the same princible applies to the EU... and shows where you are wrong with your thoughts about the situation.


    I could be wrong but I think you have reached a point where you are unable to see any positive aspects of the EU. You have resentments that are hard, maybe even impossible to overcome.

    I wont discuss this topic any further (eventhough I once more disagree on many thing you have written in your last post). You wanted my opinion and now you have it.

    It is your choice if you want to re-think your point of view or not.

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  • I did consider your opinions and we actually agree on half of it, even though you seemed to have info I didnt have on this... "future crime" part of google, which I cant understand how something that wasnt created 5 years ago was being investigated, what info seemed to be around was other app parties complaining they dont have the same chances, like that portuguese app store, which does make sense, not a future change in license that is bad, or would be, if its released in the first place. Also, thing is, google did NOT get caught about that price comparing page (made by an adult, not a kid, just that it's level was way under a normal web, swat-portal is ages beyond it), because its unfair for a non successful new page to be ranked above pages with millions of visits. That IS the stupid part at such accusation, blaming google for their own failure at being successful while using google's own search engine. It wasn't top ranked simply because it wasn't top at anything, not unfair code to filter them out. Ads above results are just like ads on FB or anything else. Others like apple did just fine under such "opression" even though its fooling their customers with "exclusivity".


    And about EU, I always seen EU with good eyes, but lately... you dont see what we see on the bad side of EU, not on the flourishing side thats benefitting from it, but the one that had fabricated crisis on them and prepare for incoming ones. Would've been nice if it could be good for everyone, right? But I guess, for some to win, others have to lose, which shouldve been others outside EU, not inside. It became like a two sided coin. Just that lately it doesnt look good on that side flourishing side either from outside's point of view. Like this fiasco about removing country identities to give up for a "higher common good".

  • For example todays news, european supreme court is putting puigdemon in jail for high treason n all. News part is germany rejecting to give puigdemon for treason what fking business it has, spain given away hundreds of german justice targets without blocking them as its not spains business even tho they fled to spain. Without even them being judged by the actual supreme court, just small stuff within germany. Hows it any diff for selfrighteous corrupt germany? Its not different. And corrupt part is comparing an illegal independence declaration with hundreds of wounded agents, extorsion of companies which ended up fleeing in thousands, with some demo against the expansion of an airport from ancient times in germany, because they used slingshots! Much war. Dozen wounded, much wow.

  • You mix up things to fit into your world. But it isnt right.

    Spain would have every right to prove extradition of persons to Germany. If they don't do it (which I strongly believe they do prove), then it is up to them. But actually the law tells them to prove before they extradite to any other country. So we dont extradite him due to treason but our law finds legal actions against him for embezzlements and corruption justified why we still prove to extradite him to Spain. Result yet unknown but could be certain that we will follow the extradition request to Spain.


    There is a good reason why justice is in the hands of the judiciary powers and not in yours or mine or anyone else who feels to be right or wrong :=) And i am happy that it is this way. Works like a charm if everyone would obey.

  • Point is, germany is following existing laws instead of subjective opinions. I see no wrong doing from germany here.

    Based on own interests germany would even have a reason to book the next flight to spain for him. But law is law. Period.


    And dont tell me that Spain would do a different decision. Spain did exactly the same decision just a few months ago when Turkey demanded an extradition under exactly the same circumstances.

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Ok, he was initially caught in middle of his travels between Belgium and Finland, that is, in Germany, thinking this country will actually do a better job than the other two in which he was protected by his "buddies", else he could just get arrested while going out of his speeches. But money works in there too. Shame. People here were happy that the capture went well, and he ended up being in the strictest and stable laws country, until it changed it's view from capturing in a jail to defending in a mansion.


    Supreme court made a decision, its THE Supreme court of a country, not a bought out lawyer in some town who actually has no reason to challenge the supreme court of another country (except money). Ignoring the idiotic and crooked comparation of a thousands wounded revolution (including property damage caused in millions) & illegal declaration of independence with unhappy townfolk about an airport expansion... because they threw stones, so was violent too. Arent you forgetting that part of something having more influence than something else? It worked in the EU topic here before when a country wanted something that the rest of EU didnt, but not the other way around huh? This court rejected Germany's stupid restriction and is seeing about taking it to EU's Justice Court instead, thanx to this betrayal move of butting in another's business. I wish it was added with a charge against Germany or competent authorities for obstruction of justice.


    And be honest, what does germany has to win by doing this, except losing one of the few friendships left? Because, no matter if legal or not, its not good, friendly, and for example its not up to other countries to give or not give german subjects with an arrest order on them, it would be hell if spain rejected or interfered with a single germany's order to surrender a prisoner out of those hundreds Spain did give... without even interfering with germany's investigations or decisions. Just look at the threats its doing because countries dont obey on things they are not supposed to obey. Maybe easier to imagine if like, New Zealand didnt surrender the target USA wanted (which happened few times), they just sent their troops and stormed the place anyway. Maybe imagine a terrorist fleeing from germany to spain, would you be happy if here we just say "no, he's only guilty of hate speech, there is no proof that he actually bombed your country" ? Because yes, another country knows best. lol


    You dont need to defend the wrongdoings of a country just because you live in it, thats not what patriotism means, and Im looking forward to what Seehofer is going to do, apparently better already after his meeting with Italy and Austria. Will see if its just a game or not.