Typical ''Police Work''

The RP system was indeed correct and nothing to do with why this thread appeared.But about the issues denne said... A timer limit ?
If tax/fine is not collected within 2 hours, it dissapears ? I don't think PvPs can last that long and can't iddle on a base that long, gotta go out of it, even if it's just to redock, but opens you to attacks for a bit, enough for few volleys.

And I'm not sure as I never got a tax on me, but, does the RP system make it so you can't tax/fine players on the other side of a system or docked somewhere, without being in your visible range ?

Quote from Corynthos

Up until now, that is... But okay, if everyone is accepting rampant piracy and cops turning a blind eye as the status quo

Corynthos: why you don't buy a police licence and take the law in your own hand when you think you can make it better? Because you are not a member of a clan you are free to buy every licence you want!
Another tipp: found your own police clan!

@RonaldoDaVinci

For server rules update:

2 ways:

• Disallow everything what is not possible via hook = if target escape, he can be chased again after 1 hour. And this need to be applied not only for pirates, but also for police. And this is in conflict with actually written rules where police can stop smuggling all the time. Next to this there can be issue with all time hostility between pirates and police. I myself not recommend use this option because this limits role-play possibilities.
• Second option is "only" add note to already existing rules that players have possibility (like a bonus) to use automatic hook command for fines or taxes which is working with strict settings and offers guaranteed "income" for RP player. My english is not good enough to give "perfect" sentence but I hope that what I wrote is understandable. So yes, pirate can chase (if want) player also after he "escape" but he have not sure "income" and if he will kill player, then is automatically applied 2 hours rule (which is in written rules). Players have allot ways how to escape if not caught in system where were /taxed /fined ...
  

  
  

  Myself suggest use this second way, bcs imo already existing rules are good enough as are, and they support server RP going on. IF problems arise (is on server rules edge), then such matters are for GRs to evaluate and talk with involved persons. Rules never can cover all possibilities. And issues which happens are every time bcs specific players behaviour, not bcs server rules are bad.
  

Corynthos Police RP is fully OK as is. You cannot force concrete players to act like you want or like you think they should act. This is imo the biggest difference between CF and Disco and I really do not like to have "forced" RP on our server. Of course this have some strong as also weak sides and I myself did police RP on my maximal possibilities, and I also try influence my clan members ... but there is NO WAY that I can or will force them to do something. Doing RP, especially police, needs skills, needs time, and primarily needs have sorted it in your head what you are doing if you want do this RP effectively, still have fun when you do it, and not get pissed when things go a wrong way (which can happen very easily). What wrote Ronaldo is exactly what I wanted to add, you have allot experience with police RP and can help with this ... IF you want to (as freelancer its much easier as in clan).

That's true, issues happen because players behaviour, not because of rules, same like in real life, a dozen books of laws but if people want, they still find ways around them. It's mostly about "common sense" and WILLING to do things the right way or not.

Quote from Corynthos

Up until now, that is... But okay, if everyone is accepting rampant piracy and cops turning a blind eye as the status quo, then I guess we'll just have to live with it.

you might want to think back to the BG times where we tried to enforce law
that was not always possible due to various reasons including personal ones

if someone does not have time for RP (e.g. due to RL, clan business, events, etc.) then you have to accept it
in first place you have no idea what the reasons are... and therefore you dont really have a right to judge

... and please dont tell me that BG_Laserjet always enforced the law back then
nobody of us did

Quote from Martind Forlon

• Disallow everything what is not possible via hook = if target escape, he can be chased again after 1 hour. And this need to be applied not only for pirates, but also for police. And this is in conflict with actually written rules where police can stop smuggling all the time. Next to this there can be issue with all time hostility between pirates and police. I myself not recommend use this option because this limits role-play possibilities.
• Second option is "only" add note to already existing rules that players have possibility (like a bonus) to use automatic hook command for fines or taxes which is working with strict settings and offers guaranteed "income" for RP player. My english is not good enough to give "perfect" sentence but I hope that what I wrote is understandable. So yes, pirate can chase (if want) player also after he "escape" but he have not sure "income" and if he will kill player, then is automatically applied 2 hours rule (which is in written rules). Players have allot ways how to escape if not caught in system where were /taxed /fined ...
  

  
  

  Myself suggest use this second way, bcs imo already existing rules are good enough as are, and they support server RP going on. IF problems arise (is on server rules edge), then such matters are for GRs to evaluate and talk with involved persons. Rules never can cover all possibilities. And issues which happens are every time bcs specific players behaviour, not bcs server rules are bad.
  

i would prefer the first alternative, with one small (if possible) change (and i told this several times before): pirates should not be able to tax cops and cops should not be able to fine pirates, because there is - as u said exactly - all time hostility between them. so it makes no sence to tax/fine between them, also from the logical point of view.

when u suggest to use the tax/fine-commands as a bonus, in its consequence a free choice, u should expect following: some notorious pirates will probably never use the tax-command again. many other players get confused because they expect the new RP and another important thing: Huor made a lot of efforts (and i saw the source code and i can tell u, it is not simple stuff) to make RP easier and more transparent. do u really want to make this work obsolete?

and 1 argument against the "police hunts smuggler issue": i see absolutely no problem with that. because: u follow a smuggler, u disrupt his cruise engine and then when u are near, u can fine him. and from this moment it's nearly impossible to escape. if pirates would work this way they would also have no reason to moan, but most of them use the /tax-command just too early

@denne yes, I fully understand what are you saying and hatts off to Huor for his huge work. I also except that 1st variant will be used despite my views on RP on server ... and to be honest to myself, it will be much easier to maintain even if it cut alot ways how to get fun from doing RP (talking for my own experience). Well, its me who like to have more possibilities, but ...

However I have some questions/notes:
1) tax/fine between pirates and police is not issue. It brings challenge to duels and multiply fun from long chases. It was tested myself more times, rly not problem, opposite is true, its good thing. And bcs it can be used only 1/hour it not have issue with bancrupting losing side (ammo costs are usually allot. bigger)

2) what about smuggler being safe from police after hes fined or escaped for 1 hour? Its ok he can be fully safe and make few times more as can be lost in 1 encounter with police? Add to this please that clever smuggler will limit his lose with 'transfer moneys'. ... can be accepted as 'not avoidable loses' for make rp smooth/easy, still its something i wanted mention.

i personally must not care about tax/fine between cops and pirates, it is out of my business i added this only to make RP more logical.

same with smugglers-affairs. not my business

but the topic was: RP fully on hook or with softer rules. both has advantages. but u as GR know how it is: players call u because one (i.e. pirate) player uses all possible "freedoms" (because of non written rules) and the other one doesnt know what happened, calls a GR and the poor GR has now the task to arbitrate. when we say taxing is not only in hook, then pirates will surely avoid this command. without /tax they can demand any sum they want (even more than 20 mill) and can chase u through the whole galaxy. ok, on the other hand u can just dock and switch off, what is not possible without loosing the credits, when the pirate uses /tax.

They can't, if they ask 21 mill guy can put a screenshot and case closed for Mr GR. The rest yup.

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Pirate Syndicate Licence
Mounting this licence and your character becomes a pirate. You make your money through taxation (extortion) of other characters. You offer the character the alternative of either paying tax or being destroyed. Pirates can tax anybody and everybody (except characters under 40th level) police, mercenaries, smugglers, freelancers and other pirates. If they refuse to pay, then the pirate may open fire and attempt to destroy them. A refusal may be in the form of word or deed (running, opening fire or not responding within a reasonable time). Pirates are allowed to shoot at their targets (max. until shields are down) before they are going to issue any tax requests.

Police are the natural enemy of pirates and as such pirates may open fire on Police Officers at will and without warning. All other players must have refused to pay tax before they can be engaged.

The maximum a pirate can tax a character is set by the characters level (see below)

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Police Licence
Mount this licence and your character is a Police Officer. You work to maintain law and order across the universe. Police officers take action against those involved in illegal acts. Illegal Acts: Smuggling – Police may scan any vessel for illegal goods (Cardamines, Alien Artefacts and Black Market Goods (BMG)). If a Smuggler is found with illegal goods, they may be fined and/or have their cargo taken and destroyed. If the smugglers refuse to pay the fine and/or drop their cargo, the police officer may destroy them. A refusal may be by word, action (attempting to run or opening fire) or by not responding in a reasonable time.

Piracy – The police may also fine characters for acts of piracy or being a known pirate (having a Pirate Syndicate Licence mounted). Acts of piracy include attacking ships (except know pirates) for profit (collecting bounties) or fun. Mercenaries who are working for pirates are also considered to be engaged in piracy for the duration of their contracts. Known pirates, character with a Pirates Syndicate Licence mounted may be engaged at will and without warning. The maximum a police officer can fine a character is set by the character’s level (see below).

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The Two Hour Limit
If a character pays her/his tax or fine they may not be taxed, fined or attacked for two hours. Except if a cop fines a player and is furthermore caught doing illegal actions – the cop is still allowed to enforce the law and order all over Sirius. On the contrary pirates are not allowed to tax a player within two ours once he paid. Players who got taxed may not be taxed by the same player again within two hours – but this applies not to the whole clan. No player may put a bounty on a character more frequently than once every 2 hours.

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Limits for Bounties, Fines and Taxes
Character Level Limit

Under Level 40 No Bounties, Fines or Taxes can be placed on these characters.
The following limits are for Fines and Taxes:
40 to 49 Up to $500.000
50 to 59 Up to $1.000.000
60 and above Up to $10.000.000

Bounties should not be set at less than $3.000.000

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This above is in server rules and if you will read it, you can see that using only hook will limits rp interactions/possibilities seriously from pirates and double from police side. Infact it will assure that player with merc, smuggler lic and freelancers can practically ignore pirates or police if pay tax or fine or escape. I fully understand that it is exactly what merc,smuggler and freelancers want, but I'm not so sure that it's a good idea overall. Was good to re-read rules to see what all it can affect.

For those with access please check new thread about rules update in the Meeting Hall.

Quote from denne

i personally must not care about tax/fine between cops and pirates, it is out of my business i added this only to make RP more logical.

same with smugglers-affairs. not my business

but the topic was: RP fully on hook or with softer rules. both has advantages. but u as GR know how it is: players call u because one (i.e. pirate) player uses all possible "freedoms" (because of non written rules) and the other one doesnt know what happened, calls a GR and the poor GR has now the task to arbitrate. when we say taxing is not only in hook, then pirates will surely avoid this command. without /tax they can demand any sum they want (even more than 20 mill) and can chase u through the whole galaxy. ok, on the other hand u can just dock and switch off, what is not possible without loosing the credits, when the pirate uses /tax.

worst case scenario for pirate: no /tax but trade request. trader refuses, flies away (or gets killed) and logs off
worst case scenario for trader: pirate uses trade request, trader pays, pirate uses /tax and kills trader
of course, both options above are undesirable
best case scenario for both: pirate uses /tax and makes sure trader pays by not letting him escape, it is that simple.

Of course, pirate decides when is the best time to /tax a trader, so yes, he may chase you for some time. that actually happened to me, I got chased through 3 systems, only got /taxed after he was close enough, and I ended up paying. well done pirate