Future Life...

There are 25 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by NucNuc.

  • Did you ever asked yourself how far is mankind developed in thousands of years? I recently watched some documentations about the universe our solar system, macro and mikro cosmos.
    I already knew that earth is about 5 billion years old and it has another 4 - 5 billion years to exist. Thats nearly the age of our solar sun. But what i was a bit frightened about was the fact that in approx. 1 billion years life on earth is no longer to bear. The sun is growing with increasing age and its too big in 1 billion year that our planet will be roasted. Life on earth will no longer be possible under such conditions.


    Well ok no panic - that is still a 1 billion years to go. But what i did ask me - will we be ready to shift our life to outer space? Currently we make big efforts to search for habitable planets, as far as i remember the next currently found is thousand of light years away (and if life would be possible is just a guess). Just in case we are able to survive in space long enough - will we ever reach this distance? Will we ever be able to build ships, large enough to hold our civilization? Would it be enough to move just to Mars for the next period when life at earth is not possible and then to the next planets in row - until our solar system will not be anymore? Probably and what was told in another documentation: The Andromeda galaxy is crashing our milky way in (dunno for sure) approx. 4 billion years. So eventual other habitable planets get closer if this event is happenig and they told the risk that other planets will crash each other is not very high and there is huge space in-between the spiral arms and their solar systems. We just have to wait long enough - hopefully.


    Too bad I will not see things happening, eventually the story about spreading in space is a bit like in our beloved Freelancer universe. What are your thoughts about possible scenarios and how mankind will develop to survive?!

    signature.png

  • You worry too much about what happens in 1 billion years.... really.
    We could be glad if the human race survives the next year. There are more than enough idiots which could press the wrong button and in the next moment the most intelligent life on this planet is a cockroach.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Yeah sure, there are enough idiots right now. But i would kindly ignore the current situation and look into future in this topic. Do you think we will populise first Mars, then one of the Jupiter moons, Saturn Moons - and then dunno about Uranus and Neptune - even if sun grows i believe its pretty much cold there so far away from the heat of the sun. And then i question if we may pass the borders of our solar system and do intersystem journeys to reach other habitable areas. Currently i do not really believe in it. But technology grows faster then we ever thought it will. And eventually we can survive in this big cold nothing - aka - space.

    signature.png

  • Have in count that human kind evolved to the species we are now, the last changes within the past 20k years and they were significative, the brains we have now, this "hardware" is about 20k years old. That's why people plan to upgrade that hardware forcedly with cip implants, same as they do to the ones that get a mechanical arm, controlled by a cip implanted in the brain. Not everyone has the money for that though, but there are many enough cases.



    Within 1 Billion years we could even be part of the cosmic energy by evolving so much that we don't need bodies to keep our conscience in.



    Anyways for sure we won't be as weak as we are now, counting survival. We live in the most perfect biosphere, athmosphere with balanced ammount of toxic gases, from -30 (excepting the poles) to -50/60 temperatures, etc. We don't need anything else for now :D When there's something that affects our survival, it'll be time to adapt and evolve, in some direction.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • oh technology for sure improves at a very fast rate
    however, mankind generally is too stupid to make use of it in the correct way.


    we clearly have the technology to travel to mars... i mean today... at this moment
    we have that technology... we are just too stupid to make use of it


    as race we are not able to concentrate on such projects... politics, money and tons of other problems
    Hell we are not even able to solve the problems here on earth.
    problems that actually are not that hard to solve... but thats again a matter of politics


    people are dying because of war and hunger... but at the same time we produce weapons and ship food to these people while instead we could help and motivate them to grow their own food. It takes not much to deliver the technology to solve such problems. Hell, we could grow plants in the desert if we want to. The poorest countries of the world could be the richest ones if they would want to and if they would get the technology for such a step forward. They have an unlimited resource that all the other countries need -> cheap energy. Large solar plants (of the newest technology) in these countries could solve the energy problem of the entire world.
    Sure, much of the energy gets lost over long distances (you cant cheat physics) but it is still enough... and its still cheaper than anything that is produced by the industry nations.
    That with the positive side effect that the poor countries get alot of money that can be invested...



    but ok... i go off topic... ... a bit... it just shows what is actually possible... what should be possible before we go to other worlds
    problem is like i mentioned... wars, politics, money... not technology
    So why should anybody spent hundreds of billions $ for a trip to mars? We can not even afford to solve the problems on our own world.
    Sorry I have a very negative opinion about mankind including their ability to achieve something big.
    Especially since we as race keep doing the same things over and over again with the sick expectation that something will get better someday.
    That does not work.
    You have to do something different in order to get different results.
    Mankind is stupid... we have not realized this fact yet.... therefore i expect that we wont fly to other planets or even solar systems. We are too stupid for such a step.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I dont think that humans evolved much in 20k years. We gathered knowledge... probably even raised in size... but thats it.
    Yes... we are getting more clever (proven fact) but in my eyes thats result of better food support which is good for the brain capacity, health standards and the resulting long live span aswell as requirement to think (training).
    But thats actually not evolution.
    Raise today a child like 20k years ago and you will get just a caveman... and probably not even a clever one.
    Really, we are not talking about evolution in the past 20k years... and for sure it is no evolution to have implants.
    The more trash you put into your body the more you make yourself dependent on it... which means that the natural functions of the body will degenerate.


    Hell, today I see people which need to use a calculator to do simple multiplications. I mean... what evolution can that be? A race that can not think anymore.


    Will we end as cosmic energy someday?
    Sure we will... but not in a form of life. No form of energy can be kept in a complex system. Its against physical laws.... a matter of entropy.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • The Carrington Event of 1859


    If a solar storm of this size hits [maybe a matter of when, not if], we lose ALL our precious technology. All computer chips fried. All electronics fried. All communications fried. All power grids down. All satellites fried. All data on unshielded hard drives gone. All computer controlled assembly lines stop [including the factories that make computer chips!]. All transportation devices with on-board computers or electronic ignition stop functioning. Planes in the air will drop out of the sky. Even if you manage to get an old vehicle running, try getting gas out of an electronic gas pump that runs on electricity...not going to happen. Mankind will revert back to the steam age for years, if not decades. Mass confusion, riots, burning, pillaging and looting. I believe this is the likely future of mankind.


    Some groups, like the Amish or aboriginal peoples that already live without technology, won't be affected much at first. But when the roving bands of scavengers flee the cities after burning them down, they will show little or no mercy to the kind, gentle people in the rural areas. The United States of America will be truly fucked. Not because of who they are as a people but for the sole reason that NEARLY EVERYONE is armed and there are millions of guns and billions of rounds of ammunition sitting on gun store shelves and in warehouses all over the country. These places will be the first to be looted and the streets of U.S cities with be filled with armed scavengers who will put a cap in your ass for that last can of pork and beans. Europe won't be much better but only because of the lack of huge stockpiles of guns. I consider myself lucky that my backyard is a million square kilometers of pristine wilderness full of small and big game.


    I agree with OP about the space exploration. There seems to be a big rush to get off this planet and such and searches for habitable planets outside our solar system. What's the big rush? Does the "Government" know something they're not telling us?

  • The technology for an interplanetary, selfsupporting - and repaying - civilization is already there. It has been already 20 years ago. With todays technology it would even be possible
    to reach other systems - if we as mankind or some member(s) of would have the wits, wish and will to carry on a task on a decades timescale. It would be a slo-mo operation, but technologically
    absolutly possible and feasable.


    It's a question of motivation, if - or IMO when it will be done.


    And in that respect humanity and almost every member of it still acts as 20k years ago. The timescale an average - 08/15 - human can ordoes think about rarly surpasses the next 3 days.
    Their interests are focused on the same basic needs 'n deeds as 20k years ago : FOOD, FUN, FU-- female company, the more, the better and the best (means simplest, cheapest and with
    lowest effort and strain) way to achieve this before the damn ape next door get something better than you.


    Therefor I agree with OP : in terms of biological, "thinking-hardware" evolution we are still cavemen. No change on that for at least the next 250k years. Most likely even more, since we,
    mankind with its invention of civilization have very effectivly killed most of the "usual" evolutionary driving forces.


    But even with its "caveman"-motivation I think mankind has achieved quite a lot. Let's stay with what connects us here - SPACEFARING.


    First thought by "wellminded" dreamers like Verne, Lasswitz, Ziolkowski, Oberth, Goddard, A.C.Clark and hell of a lot of others. They didn't achieve much with their intellectual arguments
    for spacefaring.
    Then some others found a way to interest the "Big APEs" for rocketry and space, main examples here maybe v.Braun, Koroljow, Esnault-Pelterie, Itokawa Hideo. They showed them, that with
    the new technology they could be bigger apes than the others (=> more FOOD, FUN, FU-- female company). And the by most rendered the biggest achievement - moon landing -was a boyish game
    between the at that time biggests apes, who can piss further than the other.
    (When these big boys were gone, their "playground" was abandoned => all spaceprogramms were cut down to the grounds. NASA continuing on space shuttle was mainly driven by innerpolitical and economical reasons -
    keeping certain industries in certain places alive for the voters sake and the industrialists electionary "support)


    To push things again it would need someone who convince the big apes of our time - less military, more the moneymakers and holders.
    (Think about: Bill Gates puts all his money into a space hotel enterprise. He could afford it easily)


    On your general "disbelieve" in a future of mankind:
    I think humanity IS already kind of a cockroach. Even the next dino-killer-asteroid, that is - statistically - already overdue for about 150k years won't kill mankind. A damn awfull lot of people
    would die, but not the whole lot. Like War Of the Worlds : It will start all over AGAIN !
    I think/ believe that mother nature made us too good on surviving, that she can get rid of us anymore. And there also seems to be a weired kind oh failsafe :
    since 1945 we have the ability for atomaric overkill (despite START I and II and whatever treaty since then - stiull overkill) and have been on the brink of it for more than a dozens of time. ......
    but for unknown reasons, there was always the "right guy" at the"right time" on the "right place". And the same can be said about chemicals, biologicals, etc..


    Superint_siggy_new.png


    Am I a man ? I am. So - I got married. House, wife, children,everything.
    The FUULL catastrophy !

    "MY MACHINE": Win 7 prof 64bit , i7 3770K , vtx HD7950 X-edition , 8 GB DDR3-2400 , Sandisk 256 ultra , 2TB Seagate, BenQ BL2710PT (2560x1440)

  • The Carrington Event of 1859


    If a solar storm of this size hits [maybe a matter of when, not if], we lose ALL our precious technology. All computer chips fried. All electronics fried. All communications fried. All power grids down. All satellites fried. All data on unshielded hard drives gone.


    Sorry but today not only hard drives are shielded, but satellites, plane parts and quite a lot more of electronic stuff are shielded, especially in the US.


    At least Google would still exist if such thing happens, just that we might not have a PC to connect to it, but not for long as selling PCs/other electronic stuff as TVs/etc would be the profit of the century, so for sure there will be PCs for sale, for the sake of the money :D







    I mentioned 20k years ago, as that was the last biological upgrade we got, 21k+ years ago is when we were caveman (actually, not really, longer), you are taking the biological evolution as negative as our economy evolution.


    We won't evolve biologically unless we need it for survival, so while technology does that for us, we don't need anything new to survive. But sure we'd be upgradable forcedly, with our tech, the implants that already exist.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • I really would like to see how you google something or use your harddrive without electricity

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Burning wood to heat the house while above at the ventilation it'd have a simple turbine, as in a wheel with blades made of light materials like double paper, like a ventilator, that moves a little motor. Most likely several of them...


    But electricity itself can't be stopped or destroyed, as the water turbines in their central will still spin and produce electricity, the solar panels will still send energy through the cables, same as the wind turbines, it just have to be directioned and controlled, without PCs.



    If such solar cataclism would actually kill electricity for a while, our biggest problem would be the cooling system at the nuclear reactors. I'm pretty sure they have a safety system that uses their own energy for that, or a generator, in case the light goes out, but yeah... those won't stop no matter what happens. If they are forced to stop, they'd first explode, or in the best case scenario, launch radioactive material that will contaminate more area than the explosion. Actually this isn't a good case scenario :D

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • Whaaat. If there is an electronic overkill, then all the fuses wont pretend that. Its doesnt matter if solar or wind parks still produce energy - if it is not reaching the end user then its needless and you cannot connect your normal devices to a wind plant or a normal solar panel... And just in case you can - you just need the servers and hops to work - otherwise the Internet is just as plain dark as the space outside.


    Nevertheless that all is unimportant for the topic. If we are doomed to fail prior the big bang of our sun will happen then so it may be. But in case mankind is able to survive the next billion years - do you still think we would be able to surrender to the next habitable planet (like Mars) and or even one of the Jupiter or Saturn moons? I would wish it would be that way - but just in case we are able to travel as fast as light (which i doubt we ever will be able to) - a journey to a habitable planet being thousand of light years away - would mean we need to travel thousand of years with light speed... Dunno what happens the next billion years - i wish we were able to do this. But somehow i think we will be lost...

    signature.png

  • signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • question should be if its worth to settle on barren worlds
    sure we could terraform mars... an issue which gets easier when the sun heats... but we can not bring all the life from earth to mars and we dont really understand how much is needed to create a new living world
    its simply a balance that is so much complex that the slightest mistake leads to failure
    its also a question if we want to live in a world behind of steel walls and no blue sky above us. Is that still life?

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • I think for mankind its a bearable to have no blue sky, we would be able to build up places where we could see such skies (kinda big cinemas). But we as humans wont be able to survive with our domestic animals and if they could survive others than earths conditions just has to be proven. Plants at least can.


    What i also could imagine that we make use of cooling technologies (kryo??) to freeze mankind until we reach habitable areas... Could be a possible way...

    signature.png

  • I can only speak for myself.
    I can tough decisions if necessary.... but i could not live with an illusion.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Sorry but today not only hard drives are shielded, but satellites, plane parts and quite a lot more of electronic stuff are shielded, especially in the US.


    At least Google would still exist if such thing happens, just that we might not have a PC to connect to it, but not for long as selling PCs/other electronic stuff as TVs/etc would be the profit of the century, so for sure there will be PCs for sale, for the sake of the money :D


    Let me try to explain how powerful the EMP [electromagnetic pulse] of 1859 was: This is an example of a telegraph machine from 1859. It was the only "electronics" of that time



    See the 2 cylinder things? They are hand-wound copper coils. There was so much current flowing thru the telegraph lines that some of these things actually started to melt and set things around them on fire. Some people reported being severely shocked when touching them. That's a pretty strong EMP. Massive strong. Current shielding might protect against static electricity and normal background radiation but try a billion times more powerful. The copper traces in circuit boards will melt. That's how strong the EMP of 1859 was. Here is a quote from one of the many websites on the subject:


    "Many telegraph lines across North America were rendered inoperable on the night of August 28 as the first of two successive solar storms struck. E.W. Culgan, a telegraph manager in Pittsburgh, reported that the resulting currents flowing through the wires were so powerful that platinum contacts were in danger of melting and “streams of fire” were pouring forth from the circuits. In Washington, D.C., telegraph operator Frederick W. Royce was severely shocked as his forehead grazed a ground wire. According to a witness, an arc of fire jumped from Royce’s head to the telegraphic equipment. Some telegraph stations that used chemicals to mark sheets reported that powerful surges caused telegraph paper to combust..."


    The "streams of fire" and "arc of fire" were really streams of electricity like you see from a van der graff generator:



    Yep, the EMP of 1859 was *that* powerful. Tell me again how this much current won't fry everything. It certainly will.

  • What i also could imagine that we make use of cooling technologies (kryo??) to freeze mankind until we reach habitable areas... Could be a possible way...


    They have an idea for that, as normal kryo is not possible for humans as our blood and everything would crystalize... (which is pretty bad for our constitution xD, if we are made pieces), the idea was to add a certain substance in the blood to make a similar effect the salt has on ice, that lowers the total freezing point of water to -60, so you could have liquid water at -40... same with us.



    Yep, the EMP of 1859 was *that* powerful. Tell me again how this much current won't fry everything. It certainly will.



    It certainly won't.

    or


    The guy with a trololo face :D Many ways to avoid stuff getting fried, not only that chainmail cage that will conduct all that energy arround the object, but also hardware with a case made out of other materials which are not conductive/non conductors (like the "protected hard disks" mentioned in some article above, as in the US they use that since they seen EMPs as a threat). Copper and such are very good conductors, so of course they will melt if they take in all the heat from the pass of that much energy.



    Also since we use more and more energy, these new centrals have exits and resistors for quite a huge ammount of energy, know what's the safe energy limit for a nuclear power plant ? We are not in the 1800s anymore. ^^


    I seen copper bobines (those 2 cylinders you mentioned in that image) melting at plain 220V energy as they had no resistor. Also, I doubt that by that time they had the cover of the copper wires we use now to avoid the bobines from touching eachother or melting.



    This doesn't mean, of course, that an EMP won't leave a country in dark for a while, not long tho.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • michael
    we are actually not talking about a lightning bolt hitting a cage


    we are talking about heavy electro-magnetic effects which destroy almost everything that controls out modern civilization


    no hdd has any protection from it... they are most covered by plastic components and the little bit metal has just one purpose: leading electricity just like any other computer component
    voltate spikes are the most common reason why hardware gets "grilled"


    The world wide power grids are even more in danger.
    Not that long ago half of canada and parts of the USA got a major blackout because of just one incident.
    World wide the power plants deliver the energy to the end users... but before this happens there are hundreds of transformers (practically in every city on the globe) which "convert" the energy to a usable level.
    They are like the the copper wires of the telegraph machine above... and they have no protection at all.
    They will melt... and it is not required that they all melt because of such an incident... even in a high-tech country like germany it would be enough if just a few of them burn through.... the sudden overproduction and energy spikes would lead to a chain reaction that overloads the entire power grid of the country... no... even worse... germanys power grid is directly linked with all surrounding countries.
    -> blackout in europe just because of a few damages ones
    it would take weeks to isolate the error source and fix it


    even worse if not just a few burn through but most of them...
    the entire power grid will fail without the chance to get it back online anytime soon.
    It would be necessary to rebuild this energy grid... but how to do it without energy? To produce the necessary amount of components takes years.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Don't really know, if this is still on topic.


    You discuss todays technical problems with an mayor EMP/Solar flare event.
    I may take a couple or even a dozen of years to set everything back to tadays standard,
    even if I doubt that it would take so long.


    I got the impression Hour asked on a scope of possibilities counted in centuries and millenia, (But I might also be wrong on that.)
    If we think/believe that mankind can/will/might develop into a truly cosmic society.


    Sure, such an event would be quite catastrophic fur US, TODAY and perhaps for the couple of years mentioned.
    But in the development of the human civilization it would be only a small footnote, if any.


    Superint_siggy_new.png


    Am I a man ? I am. So - I got married. House, wife, children,everything.
    The FUULL catastrophy !

    "MY MACHINE": Win 7 prof 64bit , i7 3770K , vtx HD7950 X-edition , 8 GB DDR3-2400 , Sandisk 256 ultra , 2TB Seagate, BenQ BL2710PT (2560x1440)