Discovery Mod/Community

thats what I meant
and this jerk which came here is not the only one with this attitude... In the past weeks I had to deal with 2 official discovery representatives and got sick very fast of their respectless comments against other mods and communities

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The main difference between our communities is that when you post such thread, the community members rally to support you.

They would even support others... that is called "community". And I dont tell them what they have to think... they make their own decisions. I also could have started this discussion at TLR or TSP or FLC which would have lead to pure chaos when the other mod creators would finally take a look at the stuff that is written about their mods.

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Is this kind of attention towards Discovery related to us releasing the mod trailer just hours before this thread appeared? Or is it mere coincidence? Ok, let's get to the subject.

no this is the answer to the serious shit that comes from discovery members
there have been people in all major FL communities complaining about discovery and some methods that the members showed
and these discovery discussions started before you released something... discovery has not the best reputation in the FL community due to way how the mod gets presented

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Some of our members post about borrowing features and ships from other mods. It's true, and although I never tracked Crossfire mentions on Discovery, I did see a few of such posts myself. But I have to ask: is this a crime of some sort? Can the whole community be blamed for some people wanting to borrow features? We devs never planned on doing such things, and never supported those ideas. I haven't downloaded or played Crossfire, so I'm not sure what of your features we have and what we don't. If there are some features that are present in both mods, it wasn't intentional. If there were cases of copyright infringement, inform me, and we'll resolve that.

It is respectless towards other mods and their creators to discuss about the use of their features and to make shit claims about the mods on the next threads then... I can not blame you for this since you have been the only one that I noticed which was against that. But alone the massive amount of those threads and the high numbers of discovery members which make these claims and do that shit talk would make every mod creator in the FL community angry. These are methods which damage the entire FL community and you can not find a similar behaviour on the other FL sites (including SWAT). We promote FL and the mods and do not discuss about them in a way that people which read this would never even touch those mods again. Like I already have mentioned this is respectless, arrogant and damaging for the FL community.

I dont know what featurs Discovery has atm... I dont have it and never really was interested in it but just by the stuff that is written on the forum where even discussions exist with tons of CF screenshots, movies and suggestions to take the ships that are in CF (in one thread even with the suggestion not to ask) and with the more and more equal structures of both mods (judging by your forum you never wanted the coalition to be in there but now there are discussions about the coalition being in there with similar story related background like CF has -> just an example) I have to assume that discovery puts much engery into observing what other mods have to offer.

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I don't see anything wrong in saying "vote for Discovery" instead of "vote for FL mods". Never thought of myself as a crusader fighting for the good of all Freelancer mods/communities, the game as a whole, and never said that. I do care mainly about Discovery community, our players, and our mod, and it's true: call me a selfish egoist for that.

right - as long Discovery is happy and can benefit from the rest of the community.
SWAT is open for all mods out there... we have supported many FL communities, mods and servers... and we even supported discovery by hosting downloads here... helping discovery players and sometimes even directing players to your server.
In return we got that treatment on your forum... the treatment we also got on the various FL community sites where discovery gets praised by your members "all above other mods" and finally get insulted by your members here on SWAT (which happened 3 times in the past year) and on other FL sites.

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Third time in three years when we participated in the contest. 2006, 2007, 2008. Is this also a crime?

that statement was purely about the 2008 awards

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Ok, this is a serious accusation. I never tracked the mod rating on ModDB. Do you have any proof? I will inquire ModDB administrators on this subject. You'll probably say that I'm lying, but our mod devs and me are not behind those cheating attempts, even if they ever took place.

No I have no proof... I just noticed that Discovery didnt seem to be affected... maybe you just had luck... dunno
In the end I am not even interested anymore in who it was... and maybe it was a mistake to mention this since it took me much time to calm down the other mod creators which also were affected by this crap.

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As for various Crossfire-bashing and Discovery-praising posts on our forums and elsewhere. Again, there are some members in our community who can do this, but such things were never officially inspired by me, and I'm the only one in charge of all promotion and community relations for the Discovery mod. All other people are expressing their own personal opinion, like you are in this thread, unless their posts are backed by my own posts.

Permitting something is often as worse as doing it.
And since your Mr. Leadcrows and Mr. hodlum are putting much energy into letting other mods look bad and the work of others worth less than what is done on Discovery (like many other discovery people) while other communities dont do such a crap (at least im not aware of) you better should ask yourself where your responsiblity lies.

You allow that shit on your forum... you also dont seem to be much interested in what shit your members do in the FL community (which obviously is result of what they learn at your community). Like you already said - you only care for discovery. But you totally ignore that Discovery wouldnt even exist without the other communities out there. Discovery only takes... you take features, tools, ideas, players... and then you discovery guys (im not talking about you but this is a community matter so even you are not involved it does not mean that discovery has not done all that stuff) have the nerves to make false claims about other mods, other parts of the FL community... letting them look bad.
The FL communities do ads for discovery, the FL communities host files for discovery, the FL communities create the tools that are used by discovery, the mod creators invent new features and share their knowledge.... and then gets treaten like shit by discovery.
I can only talk about what I have done... but ive spent the past 2 months promoting Freelancer for the greater good of the entire Freelancer community... I have been meanwhile spending 9 years keeping the Lancer community running and believe me you wouldnt have much players left in your community if I wouldnt have done this job (and now such discovery jerks have the nerves to tell me that I should start to work if i want to be successful). Ive been working for all the people in the freelancer community and supporting everybody who played fair... just to get insulted by your members... just to get treaten like shit... just to hear shit about my work... my mod... and the rest of the Freelancer community.

You want to know who is doing all that shit? Take a look at your forum... take a look on all those fanboys in the FL community which cry "discovery is the best FL mod".
you will find plenty of them.
And even if they are not part of the official team they respresent discovery.

TLR, SWAT, FLC, TSP, DB, EOA... we keep FL running... discovery only takes advantage of what we do... respect and support is not just a one way road.

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So, I would appreciate if you link me to TLR threads (and threads on other boards) where those discussions took place.

The thread does still exist... it was the official Discovery advertisment thread... but Hodlun requested that all following posts get deleted you will not find much there anymore... but you can easily ask the TLR staff or Rankor (which also was involved)

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Also, it's strange that an offensive "DiscoveryRulez" post appeared here before anyone from Discovery, me included, knew about this thread. I wonder who is this guy, can you share the IP? If he's from our board, he should be sanctioned. Honestly, I don't believe that he's from Disco, since we there don't tolerate this kind of attitude to anything.

Knowing that many discovery players are registered here at SWAT it does not surprise me that he appeared here. And having read through the discovery forum and seeing the posts of hodlum and leadcrows this attitude is nothing new to me.

We didnt have problems with each other in the past, Igis and you can call your mod the award winning FL mod until the end of the time if you want... but I consider this a very serious matter. I discused it here because this is a community matter where in the end a decision has to be done. Seeing that there are enough others which confirmed the negative repuation and the attitudes of many discovery players I was going to block and remove everything discovery realted from this Freelancer community and discuss this matter also with with the other FL communities out there. A solution has to be found.... or sooner or later flamewars across the entire FL communtiy will be the result.

we will see drakon... we will see
but if nobody does say a word about well known problems nothing ever will get solved

dunno - if there are going to be changes or if the problems are taken serious by the discovery community -> solving the problems

all i know is that the stuff had to be said

Update:
I just got a message from my special friend Intense (moddb staff member) informing me that the Crossfire dev team (yes the CROSSFIRE dev team) has contacted him to investigate in a downrating issue against my mod (which must be CROSSFIRE) and that I should stop making claims against CROSSFIRE because CROSSFIRE got only a few "1" votes (if i understand it right 3 votes) and those did not come from the CROSSFIRE dev team.

hmm what a surprise that the CF team is not downrating their own mod.
Highly competent people at moddb.
And since they only compare the votes of the dev teams (they only can compare those since they can not know which username belong to which mod) every ordinary fan could have be responsible. Since that message implied that those negative votes were not done by members of a dev team (no matter if its CF or Discovery) I can live with that statement.
Its impossible to say who was it (maybe even people not coming from FL)... and I want to leave it that way now...
I hereby apologize to Igis for mentioning that Discovery has not been downrated.

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I don't think that we are observing any mods for new features, except for the ENB mod for bloom (which wasn't meant for Freelancer anyway).

I can not say anything about your intentions or those of your members... i can only see what really happened and that is what really did happen on your community.

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and the reason to think so is..?

because it was a thread purely about the moty2008 and and the discussions was also purely about 2008 votes and nothing on that thread was about other moty awards not even his own statement

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Ok, at least two names are mentioned. I've never heard of anyone named "Leadcrows", and if I'm not mistaken, "hodlum" must be Hoodlum, our server admin (yeah, some people never get offended when their nicks are misspelled). Ok, something to start with. "Permitting something is often as worse as doing it." - did I permit anything? You really think that I must control each and every action of any team member? "They make decisions".

both are active members on your community... angelfire isnt better
and many others out there
but since you think discovery members are allowed to do anything they want in the FL community just because it is "their decision" you should also agree with that if SWAT members start to claim how crap Discovery is (just an example) all around the FL community it also just "their decision"
I would be really interested how you and your members would react.

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Can I ask to bring the leaders of all those sites so that they could confirm that they share your position and you are speaking on their behalf? Otherwise, you are speaking only on behalf of SWAT. You mention Rankor, ok, him I'll ask myself.

yes you can... they should be interested in the good of the FL community which involved ALL mods out - not only one (which obviously has no problem with allowing statements which cause damage to other mods and communities)

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We take features that most mods have. What do you mean by "taking tools" I don't know, maybe modders who don't make their own tools should restrain from using others' tools? About taking ideas I'd ask for proof. About taking players... sorry, what? We force someone to play our mod and not the others?

Do you really think I will precise this... every mod benefits from the development in the FL community and the new features which get published... and most give something back to the FL community
Discovery is only a one way road.

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You say that our mod is not innovative (yet a year ago you described it as "one of the best")

As a matter of fairplay and to support the FL community I say many things. And "one of the best" is not "THE BEST"... there are about 20 mods where belong into the "one of the best" category.

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Ok, let's see how modestly you describe your own mod. "Crossfire is the most complex mod for Freelancer. It was designed to show what possibilities and features are still possible in Freelancer." "It is a very cool RP server". "comes along with the most advanced cheat protection that has been developed for Freelancer". Advertising laws of all countries prohibit using "most" and "best" in commercials, either completely, or unless they are backed by independent analysis. Also, should I be ashamed that we got an award? Should we conceal this from public?

Crossfire IS the most complex mod for Freelancer... thats a fact and can simply be prooven by the amound of features and content. And it also has the most advanced cheat protection. And you are wrong... such advertisement is allowed on many countries as long you dont compare 2 products directly.
About your award... maybe you should add that discovery was the only FL mod taking part in the mod awards at this time since the entire FL community got not informed about it... and that this is nothing but a genre award that the other mods can not get anymore so in direct comparison this award is worth not much.
But since discovery player ran around in the FL community in the past 3 years to claim "we have the award and therefor we are better than all others" (yes - that did happen). Maybe I also should pull out the website award again that SWAT got in 2005 as the "best non-violent clan site".

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This thread alone has done much more harm to FL than anything that I have not done over the last 3 years. You say that a flame war has to be stopped after you start it. You accuse me of "my people" (who don't belong to me, cause I'm not a slave runner or head of a prison camp) saying the same things about other mods that SWAT members openly say here.

ah... yes to point to problems has done harm now
to who?
you?
or to the many other mods that your community did harm in the past years by the shit you people have done?

This is just incredible
YOUR community is continiusly telling shit about others and their mods... doing false claims... insulting entire modding teams by uberhypering discovery to be the BEST FL mod ever
And you have the nerves to come here and blame us for having a problem with the unfair treatment that comes from YOUR community.
Yet not alone that you dont have the balls to take up responsibility you present it in a way that your discovery members are allowed to do anything they want even if this harms other FL communities as long they are not part of your dev team. That even your dev team crossed the line also does not seem to be important.
Discovery can do whatever it wants but as soon another FL community does say something bad about discovery (based on FACTS) you suddenly seem to have a problem.
So what does gives you the right to blame us for posting our thoughts about your community while you have permitted the same shit... no even worse shit on your own community.

The only logical result would be that ALL FL communities, every modding team, ever FL site out there which have been treaten in such a way would treat discovery in the same way.
So lets all start threads now doing claims about how discovery sux... analyze every single line of the discovery mod to show what crap it is... go to other FL community starting threads there how much our mods rule and that they are the best which have been developed ever.
Based on your comments Igis this is the only solution... we forget about every fairplay and start a freelancer wide flame war. I simply give out a general permission to ALL SWAT members to act like the discovery members have act (obviously you dont seem to have a problem with what your members did so why should i have a problem doing the same).

(of course we continue to act fair towards the other mods and support them as they have done nothing wrong)