Relations with Lancersreactor

Quote

Originally posted by SWAT_OP-R8R
And I say we show the truth to the FL world and let them judge based on the facts.
Changes have to be done... but they wont be done by sitting back and doing nothing.

Why must changes be made? I don't like what it's become, and I haven't registered over there again - I visit other sites instead.

Those that care won't visit it, not in protest, simply because it's not worth their membership. Those that don't care will ignore anything and use whatever they want.

So why must it change exactly?

I fully understand your principles m8 and no matter what u decide i will fully stand behind you....I just wanted to point out and make sure that others are aware about the damage this could cause to SWAT and CF.

Hell m8 i myself would go on TLR's IRC channel and tear am a new asshole if i thought it would do any good.

I curious. If that poll was closed Sunday. The Result is that SWAT is going to refuse all ties with TLR correct? Then why is OP-R8R posting on our forums? Oh, and I love how he complains about being banned yet is posting.

I'm even more curious who will actually pay attention to this and not "BS" it.

BTW, I'm not on TLR Staff, so don't even relate me like that.

Quote

Originally posted by MantisOlthoi
I curious. If that poll was closed Sunday. The Result is that SWAT is going to refuse all ties with TLR correct? Then why is OP-R8R posting on our forums? Oh, and I love how he complains about being banned yet is posting.

I'm even more curious who will actually pay attention to this and not "BS" it.

BTW, I'm not on TLR Staff, so don't even relate me like that.

To set ppl in properly contex, you are not on of TLR staff but you are one of those that supprt those that hacked SP and SWAT...

Please finish your senteces with all the properly info, otherwise you give half of the info and only one sided, exactly what you claim that OP is doing.

because its called a discussion :p

1. I didn't even meet the guys that did that till a few days AFTER the hacking. That hacking is looked down on by everyone (I mean everyone), not just SWAT. I support TLR, not the hackers. People seem to have a tendency to judge a community by seeing a few.
2. We don't control people, as it seems is wanted here. If anyone could control anyone, that hacking would never have happened because things would be controlled so that people can not hack. My point is: We don't control them.
3. That was a complete sentence and completely true as you have already stated.

And I love that only the last line was commented on.

Well here we go and the final fantasy of the realm is unfolding to each his doom. For all the years I have served my country, the commanding officer, platoon leader, GySgt all assumed the ACCOUNTABILITY of our enlisted & junior officers, regardless of what they did incorrectly, we were the one's accountable.

This is exactly what Op does here, he takes the full load of accountability of SWAT & Crossfire on his shoulders to face the music, then he holds the one's who committed the offense RESPONSIBLE for their actions. This is called LEADERSHIP, which only a small percentile of players / people even have the ability to fathom, let alone assume.

So where is the post from TLR staff stating the hacking was wrong? Please copy the link here if there is one, which I doubt there is, so we can all see it. It is non-existant, because TLR staff is either one of two things: 1. Afraid they will be hacked for standing up to the wrong or 2. The condone the action and are pleased it took place. (pick one)

See this hacking issue can go two ways can't it? And it can get very ugly, can't it? I suggest it can and will do so very rapidly unless mature, adult intelligence prevails rather quickly. So it seems that eventually there will be retaliation after retaliation unless people simply just grow up and respect each others opinions, regardless if you agree.

This is sort of like a nuclear war.....if someone sabotages SWAT and kills our server, then it is almost a promise that someone will kill TLR( each community has these people who will do it without the admins knowledge) .........so who wins? NO ONE. All you have are two Admins who lose their money and about several thousand people with nowhere to go for solid information on FL AND game play!!

Op, we have been freinds for a long time and I will fight this battle with you, but I have to tell you, this one isn't worth it.

Stay here @ home and let's get on with our business. TLR can make the choice if they want to mend the fences.

Quote

Originally posted by SWAT_OP-R8R
because of those which visit it... which have to deal with the BS because they dont know the alternatives

I will create a giant summary of what happened
i will present it here
and i will send a copy to TLR (in private) where those guys get the chance to explain themself

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I agree with the Gunny's posting.
I wouldn't waste your time, why are they going to explain themselves? The chat logs seem to show a level of maturity that is basically "just because I can and I don't like you", so how is trying to force them to see what you think is wrong going to change them?

It won't; That type of maturity is NEVER going to say it's wrong - especially when they don't like the person telling them.

By your own admission, you've tried repeatedly to help them, to show them what's wrong - and repeatedly it's been either ignored, or bitten you in the ass!

I don't think anything will happen when you send them a list... they've never listened, and never will - so what's the point?

I get the feeling you're just trying to fulfil your own desire to have done everything you could, but perhaps listen to your community - it's time to call it quits with TLR and just ignore them - no more threads, no more mentions, no nothing - just move on and forget them.

how about this. The way I see that 3rd poll option, it can also say "Leave TLR Alone." If the admins would just leave each other alone, and just agree to quit bugging each other. That's the only way I can see this being solved. TLR people keep comming over here and see THIS thread of nothing but saying that we are the bane of Freelancer. I see threads from Nov. 26 talking about it.

Personally, I don't wanna deal with SWAT, and SWAT seems to agree on that. I'm just curious as to why, after deciding to leave TLR alone, is OP posting on TLR. And as far as leaving SWAT in someone else's hands, that seems to be that OP just wants to be able to post wherever he wants even though he's the one that suggested to refuse any ties with TLR.
I actually wish I could change my vote to separating ties with TLR myself, so that ya'll can decide to stop talking about it and leave the matter in the past.

I'm not posting to change your mind about TLR now. I can see from not just OP, but the people under him that ya'll don't want to deal with TLR. I think that both sides should ignore each other and let this whole argument blow over. If both leave each other alone, and this includes the admins and former, then there'd be no reason for the hacker to even bother anymore. Using what your saying here, SWAT was attacked because you bugged the TLR admins and made them mad. So don't go over there, they've been good at not comming over here from what I can tell.

Quote

Using what your saying here, SWAT was attacked because you bugged the TLR admins and made them mad

The funny part is, TLR hacked property that is owned by a third party, which can really cause some problems when there are several posts of admission to the crime.

Not to count the hacker crossing a number of communication lines owned by a few other companies in different countries.

Like I said, this can get ugly fast, up to and including getting the law agencies involved, so let's say we just go back to our own house and stay there?

Take my advice .

Quote

Originally posted by Gunny
Well here we go and the final fantasy of the realm is unfolding to each his doom. For all the years I have served my country, the commanding officer, platoon leader, GySgt all assumed the ACCOUNTABILITY of our enlisted & junior officers, regardless of what they did incorrectly, we were the one's accountable.

This is exactly what Op does here, he takes the full load of accountability of SWAT & Crossfire on his shoulders to face the music, then he holds the one's who committed the offense RESPONSIBLE for their actions. This is called LEADERSHIP, which only a small percentile of players / people even have the ability to fathom, let alone assume.

So where is the post from TLR staff stating the hacking was wrong? Please copy the link here if there is one, which I doubt there is, so we can all see it. It is non-existant, because TLR staff is either one of two things: 1. Afraid they will be hacked for standing up to the wrong or 2. The condone the action and are pleased it took place. (pick one)

See this hacking issue can go two ways can't it? And it can get very ugly, can't it? I suggest it can and will do so very rapidly unless mature, adult intelligence prevails rather quickly. So it seems that eventually there will be retaliation after retaliation unless people simply just grow up and respect each others opinions, regardless if you agree.

This is sort of like a nuclear war.....if someone sabotages SWAT and kills our server, then it is almost a promise that someone will kill TLR( each community has these people who will do it without the admins knowledge) .........so who wins? NO ONE. All you have are two Admins who lose their money and about several thousand people with nowhere to go for solid information on FL AND game play!!

Op, we have been freinds for a long time and I will fight this battle with you, but I have to tell you, this one isn't worth it.

Stay here @ home and let's get on with our business. TLR can make the choice if they want to mend the fences.

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Really good posting by Gunny. And I too think he's right.

Of course you have our support and backing in whatever you choose to do, OP, but I think you should carefully consider what Gunny said here..

This whole thing is becoming more and more destructive to FL the longer it drags out.. and I know you feel like you have a responsibility in some ways to the Old TLR, or you have some very rigid principles about what is fair and just in the world of FL and all the communities involved in FL.

But considering the fact that this could turn into a very ugly war, even if you hand over the reigns to Hägar, CA & Gunny, there will still be repercussions to SWAT. Everyone knows you own SWAT, even if you are not its admin.

Don't think they won't continue to hack and damage us just because you step down as Admin. They will still wage a war on SWAT and on CF. Then we will have to retaliate. I can see it getting very ugly.. and TLR will drag SWAT down with it... then both our communities will be heavily damaged, if not destroyed altogether...

The thought of it makes me cringe, to tell you the truth, because I believe in SWAT and I think we have great potential and lots of talent here.

I whole-heartedly recommend you to pursue whatever legal actions are necessary to gain justice for the hacking. That was unacceptable behavior.. especially coming from a community that knows what it feels like to be hacked for months on end.

And I think you have justified just how un-trustworthy those bastards are by posting the chat logs and other evidence here..

But now is the time to take the high road and not pursue further arguments with them.. Once again, I say "Let them die", as they surely will if they are left to their own devices. Don't go to their IRC channel.. don't go to their site.. don't even give them another thought.. they have already alienated other communities, modders, and players with their behavior.. several of which I know they have lost forever. So they have damaged themselves in this way..

Let us be done with it now, and never write the moniker TLR on this forum again. Never have anything else to do with them again. Let us get on with developing SWAT, instead of taking our time and attention away from our own business.

Of course, if you are anything like my own German husband, I expect you to be just as stubborn when your mind is made up (although NO GERMAN is as stubborn as my own beloved schatz ).. so I ask you this.. What price are you willing to pay in this war with TLR? Are you willing to sacrifice CF and SWAT to make the point that you are right?

Everyone here already knows that you are right and they are wrong. Other communities know it too.

We don't want to see you step down as Admin.. because as Huor pointed out.. we need you here. We also need you focused on SWAT.. and not on all this bullshit that TLR is trying to provoke..

I hope you think about this. I hope you make the right choice. I think it would do more harm than good to continue trying to prove something that those at TLR will never understand or appreciate. If you haven't convinced them by now, I fear you never will.. but that is their problem, not yours.

We will support you in whatever you decide.. but please know that the future of this community is in your hands, whether you are its Admin or not... after all, none of us would be here if it weren't for you.

I am really pleased to see that people are starting to see sense......Please OP let it go.....you dont need to proove anything to us we beleive you as im sure many many others do.

I feel honoured to be part of a community of your creation and also honoured to know you OP the one that stands up and speaks out and defends otheres.

No one here wants you to step down as admin for SWAT and we all know that will make no difference as in theres and most peoples eyes OP = SWAT.

You could have everyone from this community and from othere FL communites all telling TLR staff they are wrong but it will not make any difference.......and why is this.....Because they are blinded by there own BS....they hide behind lies and deceit all this shows to me is they are probably embarrassed by it all, but they started the shit and they have to stick by it no one will every change this...

But maybe in time once the dust settles and tempers are calm....then maybe progress can be made.

But for now i say let them stew in there own shit and for you to calm down and stop thinking you have to prove yourself every time as its not needed...... by all means if you wish to look into a legal way of dealing with TLR and there actions with regards to the hacking then do it or leave it and see how things go.

We love SWAT and CF and every body involved in creating a good home for us to meet and have fun ingame this includes you OP......I will fight the corner for anyone on here as you are all nice people to know even tho sometimes we may have a difference of oppinions but hell thats life and we deal with it.

But if you do decide that the only sollution is a full out attack on TLR and that only after you have tried everything else including lettting it go....and they still continue to insult SWAT and its community and continue with the hacking then i will be at your side.

But for now lets deal with SWAT portal and make sure its growth continues please:)

Quote

Originally posted by MantisOlthoi
If both leave each other alone, and this includes the admins and former, then there'd be no reason for the hacker to even bother anymore.

From what I heard, this wasn't the first time Azza has been doing DOS attacks at all. He's done them on various servers that he doesn't like, and TLR too. Why would this mean he suddenly leaves anyone alone, when if history is to be believed, he does it just to get one up on people who are more successful than himself, or he doesn't like?

As for why people blame Mental, these problems (with the hacks) never presented until Mental seemed to invite this little chap along to TLR. Since then, sites have been having (and servers) DOS attacks again.

That Azza chap obviously finds it all entertaining and thinks it's great, and since he continues to bang on about Torch, months or even LONGER after Torch stopped giving any attention to Azza, why do you think an "out of sight, out of mind" type attitude is going to work? Aparently Torch crashed their server, but lets face it, how long ago and how often was it? This guy seems to think that any community that even mentions Torch is therefore a viable target for his pathetic penis flopping... and yes, that's exactly what it is. He feels emasculated unless he can prove himself strong enough, and whilst he'll rattle on about how little he cares, it's all nothing to him yadda yadda - his actions prove otherwise.

Go into that TLR IRC and you can hear him whine on about Torch or Op every single day...