SMG

Nice burro,

For sorting it out you´ve got a pm from me - some of the pm is here now - not a realy good idea - so lets talk open about it your choice - i don´t wanna find a msn log here later.

What i was saying about the rules above is simply correct the listing you put above the Rules are not part of Merc Rules - therfor it´s an interpretation. I did not say that something of your list is ok or wrong.

The example isn´t correct. First of all the Train was docked. Later he undocked unloaded and we was talking about a possible fine which he was refusing after talking as long as the fighter needs to make his way.

Anyway:

when i am talking with the train driver in system channel i expect the fighter not to take my shields down as long as i´m talking with his orderer?! to gain an advantage later where he wasn´t say that he was hired btw.

If he open fire without a reason where nothing is what he can protect unless an empty train which i didn´t attacked he is a pirate (from which RP i await such behavior - and respect it because it´s their RP).

I didn´t wrote anything in the pm about a train which went off the scanner range - and for the records he was needing a long time to kill me and was dying some times before he did it. After he got me one time he was whining about me using a bugged ship - i will not write more here now about such behaviors.

And now back to topic:

You wrote protecting a train, yes i agree - but how can you protect a train which isn´t under attack?

*Saxons post is arriving*

YES, someone is understanding my point

Because of this post i will write even the 2. Example from the pm down here (we are equal now burro) When beeing in a Merc signed fighter and you see the police coming - what is the point to buy a piece of BMG to hold it and show it to the police? Are you smuggling than? I guess this wasn´t what Gunny meant with smuggling is ok We have had it numerous times, your Mates are carrying one! BMG and try to provocate a fight (Sorry to post it now Leroy - i know u tried to clear it inside). After it they call some of their clan mates in and our officers are calling other police forces in. So what is that?

Believe me you don´t wanna have more examples or maybe screenies... All can be fixed by pointing out your RP. If you are Mercs act so. Ask Flash or Bahamut from KoH how to avoid these Problems, both are acting in a correct RP imO they are smuggeling in their Trains and do Jobs in their fighters.

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I will need to develop SMG Rules of Engagement to address some points

Yes please

@Saxon

Your examples could easy avoid these points i agree but want to add the saying of stop at first place to it where the taxed/fined player need to stop than.

Saxon Mate it all boils down to a lack of communication between players in game ..which i sad to say the least...maybe a player thinks not warning or saying anything gives them a better advantage..it never use to be like this ...we have to look at whats changed??

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So why the hostility being shown toward police and pirate i will never know[...]

Yes we need to think about it too i agree...

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Originally posted by C9H14NO3
You wrote protecting a train, yes i agree - but how can you protect a train which isn´t under attack?

That 1 sentence sums up the whole issue imho.

I have long said that police/pirate roleplay is very similar and almost two diff sides of same coin

As for warnings - I can say police and military have always attacked pirates without warning, it's been that way since I joined LP in Januray - and it has been that way since I joined the server.

It is for this reason, pirates attack both these factions without warning as well -

Those of you that remember the ASF/CSF roleplay will remember the license practically gave you the legal right to open fire without warning.

When I first began to do rp here - some of you will remember I was very talkative rather than confrontational.

I prefered to give warnings and chase people, not to just kill them. I often used to say "CSF invader please leave our space" or other things even before I saw people, I would say it on system chat.

As I pirate I would say on system chat "All cops - tax please", or "Anyone with a CFPD in their name - tax pls" etc and so on - before I even saw them.

However, as none of us like to pay tax, pay a fine, drop our cargo, etc - many people have concluded its better to just kill someone as talking is not gonna get you anywhere.

Now - if we were more generous in our roleplay, and not only do our thing, but help others do theirs - this place may be better

The least we can do - I suppose - is give a warning - but if that always leads to the same outcome (ie pvp) - then what is the point?

It's unrealistic and unreasonable to expect people to be 100% consistent in their roleplay - that is never gonna happen and will lead to arguments on server and on forum about he should not have done that if he is a merc, a pirate or a cop

We need a more flexible approach a more cooperative approach

altho all of you have good arguments .. you are making it wrong guys .. we are supposed to talk how it MUSt / SHOULD be . and not how it was, what was done ...

this community turned a new page in development so should all players here

also, im honest, and ill say yesterdays meeting was a catastophic .. no order -- everyone were spamming the chat ... i'm still reading my screenies cuz i didnt catch what everyone was saying ...

if you want to make any change , make a leaders meeting first .. then every clan must have their own meeting --- and then again clan leaders meeting ... its the only way to discuss things .. we old players cant argue with new players about their desires and how things "should" be .. there are rules and rules must be followed if they exist ...

so .. someone take a piece of paper now, write on that paper all current problems he thinks that need to be disccused, and make the meeting ... announced one and organized plz

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Originally posted by Rover
Saxon Mate it all boils down to a lack of communication between players in game ..which i sad to say the least...maybe a player thinks not warning or saying anything gives them a better advantage..it never use to be like this ...we have to look at whats changed??

What's changed for me mate is that I got tired of talking to people and trying to convince them to pay a tax, however small

Who then either

Suicided
Stay Docked until their mates came
Killed me
Ran away after saying they would pay tax
Switched to a different system
F1 out of space

Blah blah

I think many of us come here with strong roleplay intentions and ideas to have fun - but the constant pvp just wears you down

Well I thought just before the recent meltdown

We had all agreed to give warnings before opening fire on anyone

And that was about fairplay and respect and to stop this KOS business.

Mercs are perfectly warn cops to stay away from their trains in system chat -

I heard this done before and should be perfectly reasonable

COPS STAY AWAY - DON'T COME WITHIN SCANNER RANGE _ OR YOU WILL BE FIRED UPON

Nothing wrong with that

I agree with Azadur on the need of a more flexible/cooperative approach.

Me, speaking as that train driver being protected I would like to make a statement either.
On the day the above mentioned incidents happened the SoS smuggle route was open. From my point of view the SoS-day as I like to call it, almost is an unofficial server event where it simply comes down to lawful vs unlawful. I kind of enjoy it each time remembering there still is some action going on here. Especcially this time it was quite thrilling with Kermit's BS in the neck^^. Too bad he was all alone in the beginning tho.
There is one thing I dont really understand.. why do you adress SMG with this? As far as I remember only Picard and Kyron was present. Picard was unloading my train while Kyron added a gun to the whole story. All that happened on the basis of natural mutual understanding but anybody knows that its still the best price that mercs follow. The Police are free to make any contract with any merc even on an SoS day. If they dont do that they cant really be angry about the mercs participating on the other side (which also naturally shares the loots).
I dont think there is any need to further get into it. I gladly accept your challenge to hunt me for every single BMG in the future and hope you dont take yesterday's RP personal. I would have paid any fine any day but SoS is really something different.

To finish all that I dont see SMG having anything to do with this (im not adressing the bmg in fighter issue here) and think they should become a serverclan. Being that they will most likely come up with their RP consistency in a written form.

I would say the SOS route is a blessing for the server - kindly given to us by OP.

There is a lot of room there to do roleplays -

Once I even worked with Kerm to get get those tax avoiding IOC

It seems the cops are taking more of an interest in it - why when Dopple (The richest man in all time) was doing it - the cops were no where to be seen - I cant say

But looking forward - it looks like a healthy situation so long may it continue.

Good work to the cops and the mercs and smugglers

OK ppl the 1 BMG issue should be ok now, the other is just another RP discussion and I believe this issues are best solved personaly (at least I never saw an open RP discussion to come to something real ingame).

And I will ask next time you people have problem with anything or anyone in SMG to address the issue in our forums (link in my signature), via PM or ingame. We can do nothing to fix a problem we are not aware of.

EDIT: And last thing - if your clan want to have diplomatic relations to make the communication with us easier - just contact us and we will make a board for your clan in the diplomatic section for you. So far we andwered every question and we take under concideration every issue but our policy is not to do it in the public boards cause most of the players are tired of this and the new players may not uderstand it or better understand it in the wrong way and start thinking CF is place where only problems happen which these days is entirely not true.

this is just a suggestion....

putting myself in Merc shoes, this is what i would do with regard to escorting...

A: Ask player if he will pay a fine or tax to pirate/police if stopped.

B: Assess player to determine if he normally pays tax/fine

that is the risk evaluation done.

then

Quoting price on this:
C: percentage of the traded profit margin (say 40% for example) minus the tax/fine if he pays it (depending on rank could be 3 mil), plus a risk amount based on your risk evaluation (coverring cost of ammo etc).

i suggest risk money is paid up front, then profit margin payed on job completion. the tax/fine money is deducted from profit money payment to you.

this means he gets a discount if he pays tax/fine, also, he loses less if he loses cargo, also, your are less likely to have a situation where the escorted person is fired upon with no warning from pirate, but if he is fired on then you already know that he was high risk and if you save him after being fired at then the extra risk money has counterred the cost of ammo etc.... Police should not fire without warning on a smuggler anyway as per server rules, and if they do then report to a Server police.

this way you will not be so hard pressed to loose too much if your client dies, and therefore no need to make fights and possibly venturing into acts of piracy on police and others.

Back on topic then

Taking into account CA's views as well

I agree with my whole heart that SMG be given permission to have their own clan system.

And if it comes to pass - I look forward to being kicked out of their system by the SMG muscle.

burro

yes plz dont warn me of merc hit im happy with that. i didnt think i said anything about merc hits. only about escorts and that we would ask for tax wherever possible.

escorting and assasinations 2 different jobs.

happy with no warning on assasination attempts.

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Please stop making public accusations against SMG. Let us handle this privately so noone feels offended.

For the records! I don´t have anything against SMG and said the opposite before; i even don´t and did not blame a whole clan. I tried to work these topics out in private before.

I don´t feel offended you just created facts as i wouldn´t do it not more.

I see a problem with the Merc RP as you interpret it. On this server we have running RP´s and we have even no problems with Freelancer Mercs. But in the past we often have had Problems with a clans Merc RP so this is need to be fixed in that manner, that all RPs can live with it we don´t have only Mercs here!

As long as one undefined RP harms other ppls RPs i am not able to say "Hey, cool i wish you all the best!" because i want you and all the other players and Freelancers to stay here instead of leaving like another clan did.

I want this topic to be discussed on the leaders board we need a solution for it. It seems that we are to weak to do it by ourself or simply say my RP is this or that.

I guess you got my answer to your last PM?

The part about the accusations in burro's post is little more dramatic way to ask what I already asked everyone - to address any issues concerning us in our forums. This way it will be private but can be seen by everyone involved, discussed and eventualy solved. Once you register I will provide you with forum in the diplomatic section. So far I think this method works with several clans and I don't see why not to be extended to all clans.

And when you try this way and it fails of course there are many other ways and yes they include public discussion.

I used to think of myself as reasonable man. But in some cases I feel like I speak to the wall.

I fail to see how the meeting was a disaster, atleast when I was talking it wasn't, as people answered politely and respectfully to one another.

What I do see, is people trying to change things before they can make the original one work.

@Leroy

I don´t have Problems with SMG as i said before this is nothing personal i like to have this RP issue solved - in any way. Therfore the Question is going to the Community not to a single clan.

@The Leaders Boards members

What about my RP request? May somebody give me, better us the informations about your discussion there?!

Kermit, I am working on it for you.