PX Declaration to the CF community

Quote

Originally posted by Spiky-
@ stephan

you are speaking here to one of the members of BG that has been trained to be honorful and to one that the leadership of BG (in this case Op himself and other BG leaders) has explicitly based this clan upon. I am BG members since 2003 and I know VERY VERY VERY well what honor means. BG is the oldest and is probably the MOST ELITE FL clan EVER out there (you can check our homepage, most precisely our training program and what code of conduct BG is based on) and you will know that NO OTHER FL CLAN will ever be as elite as were were, I can guarantee you that 200%. I don't need a lecture of someone who plays on CF since 2009 and no I don't want PX to find out their own meaning of honour since this would in NO WAY benefit not only your clan but your image towards the CF community

anyway I am drunk and I am not usre if my post makes snece but as I told you add me on msn: oily_colonelzc@hotmail.com and catc be on a good day to talk about PX and I will gladyly explain to you why PXs image is so bad towards, not only cops clans, but also pirate clans.

Its really a shame that PX is lead by 2 CF veteran and seen so badly in the community but hey add me on msn I thin you are a pretty smart guy and you will eventually learn something from me

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After asking permission and receiving it from my clan, I am adressing Spiky as following:

Mr. Spiky, your time on Crossfire was not under attention here and neither is your experience and dedication that I am sure all of us appreciate and neither BGs'prestige as a FL clan which again, I think we all recognise.

Furthermore, my involvement in CF is neither under attention and has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

The matter at hand, Mr. Spiky is common sense. In order to display it you do not need to have a special quality, nor vast experience...not even dedication to a cause.

We did not want to propose definitions of certain terms but given the fact that you made some accusations towards PX on multiple occasions...practically on every occasion you had to express it publicly and the way you expressed it left room to interpretation, we only asked you to clarify your stated opinion on the matter(opinion stated both online and on the forums, on different occasions).

Adding insult to injury, you did not only direclty disrespect my request to not make any further reference to this matter but added a few comments aimed at me personally, which I took note of.

I did not hold any lectures I only asked if the things you said on repeated occasions about PX are to be interpreted as they sound (that PX has no honour, etc).

Mr. Spiky, this post began as a statement directed at all the CF Community, not only you. You chose to repeat your statements about PX, statements you know we are offended about because we already contacted the BG Leadership about it. Your statement has not been clarified for us even now and seeing that you remain firm in your efforts to make these statements on multiple public occasions we thought it would be nice to know if that is in fact what you think and if so to please state the reasons why, eliminating all ambiguities from it.
We were not approached through a diplomatic channel about this (PX not being honorable) so all of this talk that we are not honorable seems out of the blue. If there were some things out of order you should have come to us first, before stating opinions in public.

So, Mr. Spiky what I asked was very simple:
1. Do you think PX is not honorable.
2. If so, why do you think this.

You do not have to answer these questions, I have faith in the BG authorities and await their feedback on this.

Currently I have very little time to play online but as I work I try to stay active on the forums in between what I have to do so believe me, I do not have alot of time to stay and chat so I'd have to ask you to forgive me if I do not take you up on your offer.

In conclusion, we have posted a message that had its initial pourpuse. This pourpuse has been hijacked and drifted away from its intended effects. If there are any more comments please adress them in other topics or on our forum. I think that we have been understanding enough until now with these issues, not throwing rocks around but trying to assess the situation and remove any ambiguity from the context. We have been stoned in the process of doing so and now, in order to end the fighting we are dropping the matter and awaiting a resolve through other means (waiting for BG authorities feedback).
I am asking you the second time Mr. Spiky, please do not make future references about this and leave it as it is for now.

Thank you in advance.

Mr. Spiky, first of all thank you for telling me after 3 pages of forum what I asked you in the first place.
Secondly and on a more serious note I'd like to point out the fact that you, yet again, disrespected my wish to not hijack this thread. So, I understand that you do not have any respect for PX but if so please note that in the Universe there is a reaction for every action in existance.

Thirdly, speaking of insults, you have not insulted only certain members of PX but the whole PX just because you THINK that people should act the way you act. As to in-game insults, I really have to ask you: Do you always leave the insults of others unpunished (and not taking screens) or is it only for PX members so that later you could stick it in our face? It very simple, you see a breach of the rules as bad language is concerned, REPORT IT!!! Otherwise you are left with unfounded and feeble accusations. So, practically first you encourage that kind of attitude, letting people insult you while insulting back and then you call us dishonorable. Mr. Spiky, the set of rules made for this game are on display for everybody and I am sure they were not put there so we could not read them...but I suppose you already knew this because you are in CF way longer than me. Next time this happens, I would report it if I were you, this way at least we would have a chance to discipline our so called "dishonorable" members when presented with hard evidence (not only presumtions and instigations).

In the fourth place, please do not speak for all the CF Community and try to stick to your own person (that is if you do not have the power of reading the mind of all players of CF through the Inet). Furthermore, please try to understand that a "Code of Conduct" will not only integrate your own tactics it would have to be agreed by all of the clans of Crossfire and put on a piece of paper. You cannot storm in and say that we did not respect YOUR meaning of HONOR or YOUR self-made code of conduct. So, excuse me when I say that if I have half an hour to play on the server, especially if I do not play that often, I would not hesitate one second to join my 6 mates in order to kill you. Why, because if I wanted to sit and do nothing I would have watched TV instead. Plus, strenght comes in numbers too and what are brothers for if not to help each other achieve their goals (ie, take a bounty).

I did not know you were banned from the PX forum but I am glad to see that because I would have done that too if it were my decision. You have singlehandedly insulted PX as a clan, alot of its members and continued to do so despite our attempts to sort out the problem and find a resolve. So there you go, that's why you got banned from the PX forum...I can't understand why you are whinning about it though...what did you think would happen? Anyways, you don't need an account on the forum of a dishonorable clan, do you?

Given the fact that like OP said and you quoted RP "cannot be based on the strict meaning of honor", it cannot be based on your meaning of honor. The strict meaning of honour, Mr. Spiky is set by alot of people agreeing what "honour" means. Spiky's meaning of "honour" is based on what BG has agreed on. So until I see a "Code of Conduct" signed by all of the leaders of CF please do not speak to me of honor, especially after exibiting the kind of behaviour you have adopted from the begining of this incident.

You understood it right Mr. Spiky, we are the victim here, in this situation. I can make a little sketch for you so:
1. PX publicly apologizes for the incident involving PX Toombs and among others BG Spiky himself.
2. Spiky states what he already stated online (we have screens of it) and knew PX took offense of because PX contacted BG authorities about it.
3. I make a post on page 1 hoping to determine what makes Spiky so angry at PX? No reports of bad language directed at Spiky were recorded, nothing was brought to our attention (we, as the PX Council) so Spiky makes accusations out of the blue and I tried to determine what was the problem.
4. Spiky says he will not continue on the subject (ignoring my post)
5. I repeat my question and politely ask for an answer.
6. Spiky takes the oportunity to insult PX again but this time he insults me as well directly implying that I do not even understand the meaning of honour and that if we want an answer we should wait on his whims.
7. I try to explain again and request a clarification
8. Spiky repeats his statement again, repeating the insult and speaking for the whole community when he said that "PX is seen so badly in the community" (when did they elect you president mate?)
9. Daywalker closes the PX response.
10. I am given permission to become active again in this matter and respond trying to clarify the issue and trying to keep a formal tone.
11. Spiky finally answers, taking the chace to insult PX again (this is the 4th time), speaking in the name of the whole community again (really mate, when did you get elected president?). After publicly stating PX has no honour, Spiky finally gave the reasons of his argument:
a. Presumably some PX members insulted him (but he did not take screenshots of it). Mate, that either means that you instigated, insulted back or you are just plain old masochistic about it...If this really bothers you and it really happens why don't you FILE A REPORT AND/OR HELP US DEAL WITH IT?
b. Too many PX members attack a target at once. (why is this even an issue and not self-killing?)
c. PX doesn't follow the inexistant "Spiky's Code of Conduct"

And that's about all...

Let me make a quick observation...for a person that speaks that much about honour, Mr. Spiky...you sure do insult and disrespect people alot. Of all the people that PX "pissed off" why were only you and SFP Gunny rainsing the issue on this thread (hijacking it)? *Edit* Oh, and Diablo who after insulting some PX members a while ago almost got KoSsed by us but luckily he agreed to do some work for us and it all straightened up (we offered you a way out of that KoS mate, remember...so next time you have something to ask us, please do it via the PX forum or report it to your SMG superiors and let them talk to usand Btw, Badboy is a newbie at CF do not mistake him for Toombs as they are two different persons* Because the others are either not pissed at PX or have some little respect for us and THAT IS WHY we made this declaration in the first place. Because we are not perfect as you are not perfect and as everybody here is not perfect but we aknoledge it and take the stepps to resolving all these issues without people getting angry, insults and X pages of forum space.

We do not try to mock you, Mr. Spiky. I am just stating the facts and your reactions. If my reactions were a little acid that is because I fail to understand your motivation in adding insult upon insult and probably a little self-defense too.

In the future, if you really want that such incidents stop try working WITH US rather than AGAINST US...give it a try, see how it fits. You cannot gain respect without giving some in return.

In conclusion, we took note of your opinion. We hope it is not the opinon of all BG and we suggest you try to bring to our attention all incidents in which you think you may have been wronged by a PX member (by breaking a rule and with real evidence of the incident).

Thank you and have a nice day/night.

@ Diablo

Here's an idea: Make a report to SP. Here's another one: Make a report on the PX forum. Yet another idea: Talk to your SMG superiors (the ones that asked you to not hijack this thread) and maybe we will talk and resolve this matter.

@ Spiky

You are a very funny dude.

"seriously mate, I am almost online every evening, I talk to a lot of people and also try to get a big picture of what people think and want on this server.

Do you think I pull what I say out of my ass? Do you really think I'm that big of an ignorant?"

I must say that I envy you, as I cannot play each day but that does not mean I am not aware of what happens on CF. In fact, I keep getting information from various sources and can get the big picture even if I am not directly involved each day.

to answer your question...yep, it sure seems like so. Why? Well, think about it...there are currently 2 persons backing you up on this forum 1. Gunny (indireclty and maybe by chance because another issue has been discussed and was sorted out) which has a history with DW and is clearly speaking because he felt threatened by our declaration (No reason to to feel like that because we respect his role as a SP and because of more reasons previously adressed in a prior post)
2. Diablo...who is in fact speaking against orders from his superiors (and did it more than once) within SMG (and who refuses to aknoledge that he really needs to post this stuf somewhere else in order for that particular incident to be treated with attention and not as an auxiliary post meant to stone PX and flame this thread)

"
ALL the things I stated here is a combined result of what and most, Pirates Cops or Freelancer a like think. Don't tell me the things I write here are without any ground information. As much as I may insult you, you insult the whole community in the way you act. My intention is not to start a war with PX. I already said numerous times now that you should change how your members act and how they do their RP NOT BY WHAT I WANT but WHAT THE PEOPLE ON THIS SERVER WANT TO SEE - A PROPER CONDUCT OF EVERY SINGLE CLAN!!!!!!!!! Understand that this CODE OF CONDUCT I'm talking about here has nothing to do with other clans, BUT YOUR OWN and you are supposed to CREATE one YOURSELF for YOUR members and ADAPT to the FEEDBACK of the PLAYERS on this SERVER. "

Things you write here are without ground information.
So practically by apologizing to the community for what Toombs did and answering in solidarity in order to prevent further incidents like these we insult the community? Once again? Who made you president, Mr. Spiky? The fact that we aknoledged that there was a problem with one of us and started to take a stand FOR the community is wrong? We post apologies to DC and SMG and they consider themselves satisfied by our apology and measures taken against Toombs.

Here you come, knight in shining armor to save the CF Community from the apology of PX. So practically the clans that were offended through this incident consider themselves satisfied and the almighty Spiky does not...way to go...We should probably apologize for the apologize, should we Spiky? This is not your game mate...there are more people involved in this so let them speak. If you are so determined to see the communities' opinion then why not try to create a code of conduct on which all the clans should agree upon?

Oh, ok...so you want us to make a "Code of conduct" for our members only now all of a sudden. Practically you want us to adapt the behaviour of our members according to feedbacks from different members of different clans.
Mr. Spiky...you realize that you are being completely illogical on this one...So, practically every clan has strengths and weaknesses. Some are very agressive (like BG, who do not fine as a policy) some have more active members (like PX, who fight more against one because they help each other). You are saying that every clan should adapt and modify their "code of conduct" to better suit another clan...so practically we are to give up our advantages for your benefit.

Just as the rules do not say that fining is mandatory, they do not say that multiple players cannot attack one player. (so when BG fines, if PX pilots will not pay they will wait their turn in attacking, would you accept that? lol)

So you want PX to "adapt" to your "code of conduct" that would mean that we would have to take turns in attacking you (like in karate movies) and make things easier for you...make insulting us easier, make attacking us easier and undermining our organisation...and lose online game time as we do that (some of us are not that lucky to be able to play several hours per day)

If we were to do as you say then we would kill RP because if every fight would be a 1vs1 pvp...it would get extraordinarily boring...

"There are NO PROBLEMS whatsoever with other clans here on this server!!!!!!! WHY? Because their members ACT PROPERLY and have FUN!!!!!"

Wrong. wanna know why? Because we are the most active clan on the server and have increased in members and thus we have more power. So that is why you do not currently have a problem with another clan. If tomorrow DC would become the most active and began to rule the server you would surely see the same in them (with no reason).

"There have been so much occasions when people simply logged off or changed char because they did not enjoy the 'RP' PX was doing, switching chars and PvPing 5vs1 !!! I don't need stupid screenshots to proof that."

Yes, for once when we KoSed a bloke from Australia for invading Alaska multiple times and using bad language to PX, when hunting Diablo for invading Alaska multiple times, etc.
Roleplay is roleplay mate...it has consequences. The only situation a persons logg off is when they are KoS, and PX does not KoS without good reason.

I almost logged of once for being attacked and killed (I was a newbie then) by Galacticfire 3 times for no reason and without warning (not even def). He did not say a word about it, not one. I did not talk to him about that. Instead I reported it to my clan leaders and the problem was not resolved in public, like you are doing now.
Other abusses are expected to be reported to SP or our forum.

"
I don't play on this server to report every single thing someone does man, I wan't proper RP and proper PvP. EVERYBODY wants this. THAT IS WHY THEY PLAY ON CF IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! "

You know damn well that these kind of incidents do not happen on a day to day bassis. So, if you have x hours to play CF, then you surely have 5 minutes to write a report to SP if you see something gone wrong...in the interest of the community take 5 minutes to write a report...because you are beating your chest that "it's not only about you" lol.

If you want proper RP and proper PVP, better start doing something about it for yourself like reporting everything you deem to be against the rules and damages your interests. If not, then it seems that these things do not bother you so I do not see the point in bringing it on this forum (other than flaming this topic and continuing with your insults)

"At this point I wills stop reasoning with you and let you rot in the belief that PX is the victim here and that your clan is doing nothing wrong."

I must congratulate you on this decision.
Here's one: IF you really saw something in PX that you thought was wrong and wanted, in the interest of all the CF community as well as your own, to right that wrong, you would have adressed your clan and the PX clan in order to try to work together and work out those problems. Maybe talk to BG leadership towards a post in the Clan Leaders'board where the issue could be better adressed (and where "everyone" could state their opinions...everyone being not only you in this case).

How you preffered to do: You obviously did not raise those problems with PX and try to resolve them...so it's clear for me that this is not your concern. I think that you do not care about the problems of the community. I think that you see in PX a rising power and one that does not share your views on how things should work (from your perspective) (because we have different strengths and weaknesses). Without taking the "honorable" way and talking with us first and trying to identify and adress the problems at hand together, you decided to go behind our backs and make accusations and ridiculous claims, insulting us and flaming the topic we intended as an apology to the community and as a start in trying to make things better for all.

So no, Mr. Spiky...we will not be the ones to rot in the belief that we are the victim. We did not react more agressive to this sharade because of our respect for BG. We will, however, let you rot in your (probably altered) so called "sense of honour".