CF Balance

considering the fact that missiles don't track too often nowadays its much more harder for me to hit someone

other than that I agree hitting Lagg with guns is very very hard especially when you fight people who think PvP is evading, shooting 1 salv every 5 minutes and spamming CDs

but I do not think using an energy bar to prevent people from spamming missiles is necessary afaik in 1.8 the missile "cooldown" will be 4 seconds instead of 2 seconds (?)

Missles are slow and easily evadable. Even flying towards them sometimes causes them to miss haha.

Black if you have a problem with hitting with your guns, then that's poor aiming.
The game compensates in terms of weapons' speed differences. I use tizonas and DKAs. No hitting difficulties whatsoever. No jumping targeting crosshair.
Spamming your missles faster helps the fights not last 2 hours.
More CDs = "i take ur shieldz doun and spamm CDz at u untilll ur ded muwhahahahaha". No thanks it's already lame enough cause most people do more damage with their CDs than their missles.

100% Armor is the equivilent of 2 health bars, no ?

Guns rely on ammo, energy bar's that ammo. If you don't want ammo why not just make them insta gibs: [78] that'd be more boring then missles.

Missles have a limited number of shots meaning you run out of those, a gunner will shred you to pieces.

Guns are good enough as they are. That's my oppinion.

yep guns are not the problem at all, its the shields which regenerates too fast... afaik in CF 1.0 - 1.5 or whatever number the first ones had there was only the armor upgrade and people died a lot faster back then

I agree with Black. To continue to enjoy PvP I have completely switched over to use of capital ships. All my other chars are a variety of VHFs that only fight NPCs (if it can be helped, at least). It's true that guns-only can still work if one's marksmanship is extraordinary, but I whenever I fly a fighter that isn't a lagg - lining up the guns is pretty much impossible to do without the target already turned to face me and firing a missile salvo - needless to say, the opponent will inflict several times as much damage if I don't break off (in which case I'm being chased by a more agile, heavily-armed fighter).

In terms of weaponry there is often a balance between firepower, defenses, and speed. For VHFs to be balanced, if a ship class has exceptional ability in one area it must be lacking in another. It's only an idea, really, but I do think fighters would be much better balanced if there were tradeoffs between agility, number of weapon slots, and hull + max shield class. People flocking to a single ship class indicates imbalance. CF has dozens and dozens of marvelous VHFs, and yet most are relatively useless for PvP right now. x.x

So the Lagg gets nerfed ? Im sure SFP would be very happy with that.......

Guns can knock down shields just fine with 2 tizonas and 4 ppcs.

If people want to nerf the missiles then it is only fair to limit the amount of ammo guns have.
Missiles have certain advantages for high damage ( when they can actually lock on). Guns have certain advantages for unlimited ammo.

I mean no disrepect to anyone but how many times must we have the same tired-out discussion? These kind of threads get very old

right burro
op change that at 1.8
we need look at the effects of that first^^

agreed

we have had enough of those threads, changes will come with 1.8 let´s just wait for them.

burro
i even remember about upcoming new shield revisions :}

I just remembered, if you want to nerf missles, fix the countermeasures. "90% efficency" is kinda like saying that the Earth is flat and that everything revolves around us. I had a pitstop on 2 different servers and there the countermeasures just take missles away from your ass. 1 CM and that's it you're home safe so long as you don't fly straight towards the missle. Here you can spam 50 CMs without any effect. I'd say they're more like 40-50% effective rather than 80-90%. If it were 90, every 1st-2nd CM must take away missles from you, but it ain't happening.

One of the main advantage (other then the turn rare) of the lagg is that it can take missiles from the front and not take any or very little damage. If that only fact was fixed, I'm sure the lagg would loose most of its advantage. The better turn rate is relatively well balanced by the fact that the lagg has low armour.

Hello cough...Black... Pee-rat!

Quote

Lagg Paralyzer - takes down 90% of a shield Nemesis - 10% of the hull Cataclysm - 10% of the hull 3 Guns - hardly any hits. One hit with 3 guns would be ~7.5% of the hull 2 CDs - used for finishing off low targets - often shot together instead of saving up some for more damage Dual mines CM

I disagree, what are you talking about.

90% of shields, when, where(even with skill sub-targeting this is not possible) and this depends of many things in different situation, with different, ships and blah, blah.

For some guns only higher cadence of fire.But little bit.
Again,this fine tune require updates, toward Aces opinion about efficiency!team work!

And you must chose, guns or missiles!And when to use!Yes money is the problem, but think about young players in PvP, for example.Start trade, and start RP, Tax ppl!

About Lagg, simple yes, we must have more balanced ships, in the game.But i use Predator and Shroud atm. and three Laggs.
Imo we don't need thousand of non useful ships.

I play many games and this game(mod) is very balanced, need some correction but very good.
Personally i like more exploring games, with finding rarely equipment in secret and well guarded places(equipment from parts, also), instead buying all.Team work against NPC for example.
But OP know very well, what this can mean for game play.

I have more then 1000 hours on line(in this game) for about three months(freelancer +SFP)more then 1500 PVP and i know some things about fighting.
Need more time for training, but PvP is not my mission in this game at this moment, i like RP and friendship and this is where I found some kindred spirits
When you see me as I train in the Colosseum and the Cube arena, fear me!

And why lose time with you Pee-rats,in chat, after all.
Look for me, and fight me!

p.s.
@OP
can we participate in ur efforts (imagine 1 euro/per month from every player, or even better 5e/per one year )

Funny thing, when I first started playing here, everyone told me I was an idiot for flying a Lagg (not enough this's and thats)....then I started learning to fly and did well in that ship...somehow everyone decided my strategy didn't suck so much after all!!! Btw...I have seen other pilots, such as Myric pick the less used ships and learn to be very interesting and skillful pilots in many ships. Personally I like another ship...however the bugs seem to never get fixed on it so ......I do like the turn rate on Lagg.....but I like other ships as well and if Lagg get's "disabled" and others don't get fixed.....well thats a shame.

Interesting discussion - and I will give my opinion as a non-playing member of CF at the moment - but still a member of this community.

I would like to see that clans use the ships in their own systems as far as possible -

I think it would be neat if, for example, clan members from system X proudly flew ships from that system and so forth - recognising that would not always be possible.

I vaguely remember hearing about a programme that calculates all the ships variables to ensure advantages in one place is taken account of somewhere else.

OP also said once people have forgotten to fly the other ships which is why the lagg is so popular now -

Why oh why oh why in a mod with so many beautiful ships so many people use one?

It's a shame!!

Sign here for my campaign to save the ship construction factories and engineer jobs in all the systems!!

Jobs for all - not just those that live in Sovetksys!!

Off Topic: Comically most of you think SFP rented Sovetskaya so we can control the Lagg. That is probably the last item on the list. As my members will tell you, we have other reasons due to some real foresight by two of us^^ "All ya'll" will find out in 1.8 muwahahaha.

Sometimes it pays to actually read descriptions of equipment / ships / weapons and commodities and more so, pay attention to what those descriptions say^^

It might pay to read the descriptions if the equipment actually did what it said on the tin.

I think theres one thing thats always overlooked....

Theres no weight in space, lol. its a wieghtless environment. so, i think relying on weight to be a major part of game for balancing issues seems rather wierd to say the least. [8]

personally, i think Shield typeis the answer.

Usable other types of shields!!!!! i cant stress this enough, it would be the single most important thing to add variety to this mod.

i.e. not just everyone using the CHAMP 10 sheild, maybe we should have an equivalent in the other 2 types of sheild too (brigante/barrier, etc...)!!! just imagine what it would be like to not know many many gun hit you need to land before you can fire a missile to blow your opponent up. it makes it much more exciting.

Battles will be more dependant on your setup, and not on missile timings.

also would be good if there was a particular sheild thats strong against missiles but weaker against guns. a new sheild type maybe. i think this combined with the fact we have anti-sheild guns will produce some interesting possibilities. also, maybe anti-sheild guns that are good against specific sheild types, just to make even more interesting