Design failure, cheat or just awesome?

There are 28 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by Martind Forlon.

  • A few days ago Ive met another player in Elite which had a nickname that I knew from Starlancer and Freelancer.
    I had a short talk with that guy just to find out that he is not the person that i knew 10 years ago... but he also was a FL player and knows my old friend.
    To shorten this story a bit... I met this guy in Open play but noticed that he switched to Solo play then.


    That made me a big curious. I never tried Solo before... and I was wondering what motivation a player would have to play that game mode.
    Today I tried it and joined solo for the first time.
    Actually i was expecting to start again with a sidewinder and 0 progress.
    Surprisingly I started in my Python... at the same location that I had in open play... with the same money as in open play and with the same rank progress.
    With other words there was no difference between Solo and Open.


    The way I could read it the Solo play is pretty much the same as the Open play with the only difference that you never encounter other Commanders (players) there.


    This leads me to a few thoughts.
    In theory I could pick a good traderoute... and instead of trading in Open play (where other Commanders can convince me by force to drop my cargo or even destroy me) I could trade in Solo mode and NEVER get disturbed by pirates.
    While unfair behaviour (e.g. combat logging -> logging of in combat to avoid being killed) is not allowed you practically can avoid that such combat situations even happen by switching to Solo mode as long you want to earn money in a freigther.
    If you are rich, have a great ship and the best equipment you can then switch back to Open gameplay and start to bully other players.


    Design failure, cheat or just awesome?


    I have another example.
    There are community goals where you have to deliver cargo to a specific station.
    Often pirates wait infront of that station or patrol the freight paths.
    In solo play you could play the CG without that anybody could disturb you. A 100% save delivery.


    Design failure, cheat or just awesome?

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Its by design, you can freely switch modes how you like ... and its awesome, its stupid, its freedom of choice, its the biggest bullshit and I guess there were used all existing adjectives in all world languages ... in countless posts & threads not only at FD site. There are daily hundreds of posts about this. Next to this you forget private groups option where can be set 'rules' like no PvP except combat zones like have 'known' group Mobius with almost 20k members.


    In open you will find newbies and players which want to play in open. This is fact, which was designed by FDev. Could be partly(mainly?) also bcs was 'cancelled' standalone solo mode.


    My pov is that solo, group modes are stupid from players view due they purposely removed such way 'dangerous' from Elite play ... but there are thousands (hundred thousands) of different views on this matter.


    Another thing is, that in open there are areas where you will meet commanders regularly, all depends about player play-style and knowledge how things works in ED space.


    Pirates life is hard for more reasons, discussion about this is another 'long' topic.


    My own pov is that problem are not game modes, but NPCs behaviour (like theirs mentioned 'cheating') and missing working crime & punishment system. However here is possible that with 2.1 will things change (or starts change), at least there were topics with FD staff involved. And changes on this level go deep to background simulation, so it will be not easy task.


    ED is still in development. Its ofc only my personal observation, but it seems that FDev reached position, when will be updated core gameplay mechanisms.

  • problem is when you talk about version 2.1 you are talking about horizons
    the 2.x version numbers refer to horizons content while the next version for the main game is 1.6

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Sorry, but it will apply for 1.6 as well, its linked much more with core game as horizons dlc.

  • then i have to ask myself what 2.1 has to offer
    commander creation? or is that also for the main game?

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Quote

    2.1 – The Engineers
    Coming Spring 2016
    Everything changes. Introducing an expanded mission system and game-changing loot. Craft exotic weapons and modules for your spacecraft and build a ship unlike any other.


    Missions systems is only one and I have read also about significant changes to NPCs AI. These two things are linked with core game.


    Commander creation should be in 2.3 (and this dunno if is for core game).

  • Dev Update (11/02/16) and reply to horizons/core game is here in this post: Dev Update (11/02/16) - Page 2


    And this post is also interesting: Dev Update (11/02/16) - Page 4 (money rewards for missions)

  • Dev Update (18/02/16) ... it really starts looking very interesting :)

  • you have to scan unidentified signal sources? wtf?

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • They are adding (finally) logical content inside systems. USS (unidentified signal sources) will be part of it - i.e. they will be not only randomly spawn like now. And scanning, hmm .. new use for scanners equipment? ... you will not need drop out of SC to find out what it is, myself like this idea.

  • well, im sceptical
    i doubt that scanning really is going to work


    in the end it means that even combat ships and traders need to mount scanners (discovery scanners if i understood it right)
    so one cargo rack... or one hull improvement less

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Going back to your point OP about doing community goals in solo, you still get pestered by npc's who sometimes follow you all the way to your destination station. That's ok in a type 6 but try it in a type 9, not great but part of the fun.


    Of course that has all stopped now with the current update due to the difficulty level the AI have received from the devs, making simple trade runs almost impossible now. I'm tempted to jump into my Asp and go back out exploring until they sort it out, or stop playing for a while as the game difficulty level has risen to insane

  • didnt they patch the difficulty already?
    or was that more like a cosmetical change on a fundamental problem?

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • There was patch which removed from AI use of "self-crafted" special weapons version. But all other is in place and NPCs now really shot back (1.6/2.1). I play almost all the time in open, using in last days mining anaconda or scavenger python build and I need to say I enjoy NPCs how are they now ... its now really dangerous in space and you need to think good what you are able to do by yourself, if is not better use one cargo less and increase defence or if is not good idea cooperate with other players.


    It is a fact that players still complain about the AI, however there is one thing which not many registered yet (reason is obvious, they do not play in open ...). Times when in open ruled silent builds, and pvp griefers had free hands ended. Local FED forces are now something worthy to be considered and to be on NPCs "shot list" can keep cmdrs really busy. With enhanced AI also ended times when player in solo used poor equipped ship filled fully for cargo hauling ... you can try do this now and you will die, simple. New version need new thinking, trying new things, new tactics etc. I'm sure that this is something what forced some ppl stop with play ED, but imo FDev did a step into right direction.


    Next to this, in 2.1 (engineers, which need to have Horizons) you can work on your ship purchased modules upgrading (myself have only two 1lvl upgrades on Python yet, I do not have rush and I'm tinkering with engineers only from time to time. Imo its not bad move from FDevs, and I see it as calculated risk from theirs side ... those who support game (and have Horizons) have a chance (its only a possibility, it is not something what you can achieve overnight) to have yours ship working better.

  • Do I understand it right that you can only use upgrades if you have horizon?
    Isnt that a bit unfair to all other players?
    in my eyes thats a very bad move... not fair... it forces players to invest more money

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Misunderstanding. You as basic game owner will get updated menu, features, missions etc. What you will not have is access to engineers (and ability to work on upgrading ship modules) bcs engineers bases are all on planets surfaces.


    ... you not need upgrading ship modules for play, its playable (imo) without it.

  • I give example ... you can explore with anaconda and jump range 30 ly on basic game or with horizons spent bigger time working on upgrades and then jump 40-50 ly. Horizons give something new, but only if you decide put serious effort to it. Some still may see it as unfair, but well, its in the end FD decision. Myself have no issue with such approach, ... I get used to spent some my moneys on things which I enjoy, and counting moneys/time in game its imo quite fair, I get allot fun for all moneys I used.

  • But hey, the best is simply start basic ED and slowly look on in-game changes. I suggest put on your ship more defence and be prepared for serious need to use 'pips' management and that NPCs are now not easy for shot. Last update added to core game really allot.

  • @Gibbon ... try mines on trader :)

  • at the point when a normal ED player faces a Horizon player in combat (which is very likely when you transport specific commodities with high value) then the guy that has no Horizon will have a disadvantage.


    putting the effort completely aside (because the normal ED player might spend the same time in the game and working as hard as the Horizon players) the horizon player will always have the advantage over the guy which only owns the main game.


    and in my eyes... thats a very disgusting imbalance and a disgusting way how to treat players.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!