My 2 cents (and then some!)

There are 18 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by Vishnu.

  • Hi there!


    Here are some things I'd love to see addressed in Crossfire 2.0:


    1. Employ a new ship design philosophy. Get away from the linear progression of "this ship is statistically superior to that ship" by adopting a design formula that would be applicable to all ships of the same basic type (LF, HF, Fr, etc.). The formula that I recommend goes like this: [+20%/+2, +10%/+1, +/-0, -10%/-1, -20%/-2], where one of the ship's design parameters (ex: Hull Rating) would qualify to recieve a +20% bonus, another one would qualify to recieve a +10%/+1 bonus (ex: +1 add'l Hardpoints), and to balance it out, the ship designer would need to select two design parameters that would recieve a -10%/-1 penalty and a -20%/-2 penalty respectively. All other design parameters would remain at or near the statistical average for the basic ship type. Another way to think about this would be, "Each starship manufacturer in the game will subscribe to a different design philosophy wherein one element/parameter of starship design will be regarded by that manufacturer as most important (+20%/+2) to the design of their starships, another will be regarded as more important (+10%/+1) than the rest, and two other design parameters will be selected as less important (-10%/-1), and unimportant (-20%/-2) to offset the chosen advantages."


    So as an example, let's say that the South Hampton shipyard in New London is the production facility for the Avenger Class HF, and it subscribes to the design philosophy: [Hull Rating +20%, Hardpoints +1, Cargo Space -10%, Maneuverability -20%]. If the statisticaly average Hull Rating for HF's in Crossfire was 6000, the Avenger would have a rating of (6000 x 1.20 =) 7200. If the statistically average number of weapon hardpoints for a HF was 6, then the Avenger would get 7 (a turret probably since 7 is an odd number). But to get these advantages, it would have to sacrifice cargo space and maneuverability in respectively equal measure because that's what the design formula calls for. Following something along these lines should greatly reduce "Ship Superiority Syndrome (SSS)" where players pick their ship only on the basis of its statistical advantages, and allow them to explore more freely the pro's and con's of the various design philosophies, and eventually settle on one (or more) that best fits their own flying/fighting style.


    A word of caution: It is possible to choose offset parameters that aren't a fair match up against the advantaged parameters, and so you will need to consider this possiblity when accepting or rejecting particular ship design philosophies. (Ex: choosing to reduce a ship's number of hardpoints in exchange for a higher Hull Rating doesn't seem right to me - how would the lack of a hardpoint or two contribute to a tougher hull?, etc.)


    I recommend assigning one design philosphy to each shipyard in the game, and then decide which ships are/were produced at which shipyard, and then apply the assigned formula to those ships. Also keep in mind that ship yards themselves can be sub-divided into three catagories: Civilian, Corporate, and Military, so you will want to take that into account when deciding which ships were made where. These distinctions mostly apply to ship yards owned and operated by Colonial interests, whereas groups like the Outcasts and Corsairs (and there ilk) will operate ship yards that produce more all-purpose designs. Alien starships (i.e. Nomads, Dom'Kavosh, etc.) will most likely have just a single design philosophy no matter how many ship yards they operate in the game, so this rule doesn't apply to them as strictly as it does to human-owned ship yards.


    2. More starship equipment variety. Every player loves being able to beef up their chosen ship, and Crossfire does provide some good options, but in comparison to some of the other Mods I've seen out there, I am of the opinion that Crossfire could be delivering much more in this area. You will likely need to re-evaluate how many option slots each class/type of ship is allowed to have in order to accomodate an expanded list of options. Here are a few of my recommendations:


    1) More Armor Module variations - Military Grade (Highest Rating boost, Highest Weight, High Priced); Corporate Grade (High Rating boost, Mid Weight, Highest Priced); and Civilian Grade (Lowest Rating boost, Lowest Weight, Lowest Priced). Give Nomads and Dom'Kavosh ships regenerating armor (instead of Batts/Bots).


    2) Shield Reinforcement Modules (SRM) - Increases Shield Rating by a fixed amount. Civilian versions would give the least boost, but are the most energy efficient, and the cheapest to buy; Corporate versions would give a bigger boost, bigger energy drain, and higher priced; Military versions give the best boost, are energy inefficient, and cost the most, etc. These would also take up Cargo Space to install.


    3) Advanced Shield Power Coupling Array - Basically the same thing as the current Shield Upgrade Module found in Crossfire that improves Shield Regeneration Rates. Follows same design considerations as SRM's, except it wouldn't affect Cargo Space when installed (because its replacing other components).


    4) Modularize Ship's Power Core/Engines. Create a variety of engine types that can be installed - Stock (comes with ship), Racing (Better Power Output, Best Speed boost, shortest charging time for Cruise engines, least rugged option, Expensive), Heavy-duty (highest power output, but speed reduced and longer Cruise charging time, more rugged than stock, Mid-priced), Ruggedized (Slightly better Power Output than Stock, Longest charging time for Cruise, Highest component damage rating before power loss and/or destruction occurs, Mid-priced), and High-Performance (A balanced - and therefore expensive - combination of improved Power, Speed, recharging time and ruggedness.) I'm not sure if FL uses a reduced power output rating after exceeding a damage threshold, but if it could be incorporated that would be awesome!


    5) More coherency and consistency with regard to Thruster options and where to purchase them. High-Velocity/Low-Efficency models should be found at or near bases where Racing is popular (like Battleship Hood), or where Interceptors/Interdictor craft are sold. High-Efficiency/Low-Velocity models should be sold at or near bases frequented by cargo haulers, transports, mining craft, exploration vessels and starliners. High-Performance Thrusters (which combine the benefits of the other two types, but perhaps not to the same extremes) should be found at or near Military bases and Corporate HQ's, and be the most expensive to own (perhaps subject to high Reputation requirements?).


    6) Weight Reduction Kits - Don't make these mutually exclusive with Armor modules. Armor is applied to the outside of a ship, whereas Weight Reduction involves the replacement of internal components with versions made from lighter materials. The two options should be designed to work together not at odds with each other. If anything, use a formula for weight reduction that subtracts out the weight gained from Armor before calculating the amount of the reduction.


    OK, that ought to do it for now.

  • ok, we see what we can do

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


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  • Thank you Cybernaught!


    I'd like to add about replaceable engines: there could be quality-similar ones of different exhaust colors sold on different bases (depending on the faction, for example). This would allow to customize the engine's color of any ship according one's personal taste.
    I'm quite sure many people would like to see their Saracen with Reaper's turquoise engine or try mounting a Rheinlandian green one on their Sabre. :thumbup: I remember a Russian mod with such feature, and it was great!

    Edited once, last by Cresthen: changing "saber" to "sabre", I meant the vanilla FL one there ().

  • Cybernaught: Nice list of suggestions there !


    @Cresthen: Indeed, customizable engines are also a great idea... imagine mounting engiens of soem cool color, or even your favorite color, though if there will be faster and slower ones, we'll get the problem that everyone simply buys the best one on all ships.


    Reaper's turqoise engine... well, nomad's purple ones are also interesting ^^


    But the engine color is also partially affected by the particle color you choose when activating the Crossfire mod. So this topic can easely be secondary or lower priority.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • we'll get the problem that everyone simply buys the best one on all ships


    there could be quality-similar ones of different exhaust colors


    So the best one would also have different color versions sold somewhere.


    All problems with particle color are solved by choosing white. :thumbsup:
    I still regret choosing gold during the last installation... :( Yeah tradelanes and jumpgates look great, but engines and gun splashes are completely spoilt, to my mind.

  • I am at peace with chosing purple on a PC(lol), and red on another(k, laptop), the 3rd has no CF yet.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • While we speak about engines, I can also suggest to fix Inquisitor's symmetry problem:
    [expander]
    (click to enlarge)

    [/expander]
    Many players are proved to see the same, so I'm reporting it here instead of ticket system so that everyone would know whether it is fixed or will be fixed in 2.0 or can't be fixed at all...

  • Adding 1 more engine effect on the other hole, and ready :)



    Inquisitor actually looks very nice...

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • one of the big problems as usual is the limitation of hardpoint types
    this is a real problem


    the features are all cool and its clearly possible to create them
    but how to apply them to ships?
    how to prevent that e.g. a starflyer uses an engine that is balanced for very heavy fighters only?
    to tell FL where certain equipment can be used hardpoint types are needed... the problem with that is FL has a limited amount of hardpoint types and CF already uses all of them (that is hardcoded and can not be changed without the source code or additional plugins)


    so creating these features is not a big deal... but adding them in the mod without side effects... well thats a totally different category of challenge

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Can't that limitation be passed over in the same way as the old engines ammount limitation got passed over ? (the one of 09 engines)


    Or well, this would be entering in too many details.



    After all, this feature is mainly a visual effect feature, so it's not as important as the other features.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • that michael... is a very interesting question actually
    i did not think of that before eventhough there is still a high chance that it does not work as i remember having seen the exact hardpoint types names inside the compiled code

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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Could the equipment/weps levels pass over 10 with the same tactic ? It could help in some equipment related situations, and solving how armor, wr1-3 and such stuff are defined, maybe you can make enough space for the engines(and other additions) as a hardpoint type. Or the equip levels are actually limited for real by the engine (this limitation sounds familiar from somewhere).

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • Wow thanks everyone for the positive comments!


    I just want to let you guys know that I really appreciate the new life you are breathing into FL with your Mod. I'm a big fan of "immersion" gaming, and I've always felt that FL has the capacity to deliver that experience, so hopefully, all of my suggestions will reflect my commitment to wanting to see an FL Mod that is both realistic and loads of fun to play! :D


    Also, as you can see, I'm pretty good with English spelling and grammer, so if you'd like some assistance with Infocard writing, just let me know how its done, and I'll get to it.


    Peace (Through Superior Firepower!)

  • every help is welcome

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
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    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Quote

    "the features are all cool and its clearly possible to create them
    but how to apply them to ships?
    how to prevent that e.g. a starflyer uses an engine that is balanced for very heavy fighters only?"


    Ah, this is a good point, and here is my answer: Make the various engine types take up cargo space so that an LF that wants to mount an HF engine may do so, but not without sacrificing the ability to mount other equipment options that also require cargo space to install. Sorry, I didn't account for that in my initial post. This means that when ships are initially designed, the amount of cargo space they have needs to be carefully considered so as to accurately reflect the amount a ship of that size should have, given its chosen design philosophy. If that doesn't work, another suggestion would be to make the engines subject to the same ship restriction that applies to shield generators (i.e. can't mount LF gen. on a HF and vice versa, etc.)


    Hope that helps! ;)

  • Hmm, even the lowest freigher, the Rhino on Pl Manhattan can mount a VHF engine then, but well, wasting a lot of space for more speed can be counted as fair and balanced. Though there are bigger trains and transports arround whhere 50-100 cargo doesn't matter.


    Peace (Through Superior Firepower!)


    Haha that phrase is copyrighted by CFPD since long ago ^^ As the Military Police clan.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

  • I have feeling multiple engines or different types of engine colors can be mounted on the ship by buying them from a dealer. As Michael said, maybe engines could be mounted on a hardpoint on a ship and when one feels like changing they could just go and pick up an engine from a shop and replace their current ones. Though i feel light fighter engines should probably be made to be the same speed as all other VHF engines, as people could easily exploit their faster speed and mount it on their ship for pvp. I think hamburg city mod has this feature and even I made a thanatos which has 1 nomad engine and 2 regular attached at the same time ^^.
    They were added to the thanatos ship package which the player buys from the dealer, by defining another ship's engine as an Addon and then adding that addon to the ship.

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