Operation "Crossfire expanded "

Yes, all players on this forum should get their backs in-game and enjoy with other HUMAN ppl the best MOD !

Its much more fun if u play MP since you can also chat with other players and ask them for advice and help. And humans are much more fun to battle with because everyone has his own style of dogfighting
and the reflexes are also human the movements will not be crazily fast agile. there is much more fun playing MP than SP

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Originally posted by Hellraiser
.... movements will not be crazily fast agile. ...

Are the NPCs "too" fast for you, Hellraiser ?

As a by now known convinced Singleplayer,
I would like to ask [SIZE=3]WHY[/SIZE] it is so damn important for Crossfire and/or SWAT as a whole, that the server is as populated as possible ?

So important, that someone thiks it's necessary to start a thread that sounds a bit like a "recruiting apell" of the army.

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Originally posted by Michael
Yes, all players on this forum should get their backs in-game

Since you asked so nicely, Michael, I gave it a try. But I had the same problem as FL_Freak: The Crossfire server cannot be selected from the list of servers.

If I filter out "incompatible builds", then the Crossfire server does not show up on the list at all.

This is with a straight, clean, updated, Crossfire installation.

Are you sure you installed the NEW version, 1.81 ? well... are you using Vista ? heh

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Originally posted by Michael
Are you sure you installed the NEW version, 1.81 ?

I appreciate your help, Michael. But what "new" version? Do you mean the new version that OP said that he was working on for a few days and then, instead of announcing it, he said that he was "definitely not going to post a new version" because everything could be done through the launcher?

Ok, Ok... so I see that there really IS a new version in the Downloads area but, seriously, how would anyone trying to follow the Crossfire beta know that?

The following is not directed at you, Michael. It is just a general thought for the Swat/Crossfire community:

I realize that English is not everyone's first language here but, come on... a little communication would go a long way toward attracting new members, if that is what the community wants.

Lack of documentation combined with flaming every newbie who asks a question... what kind of "marketing campaign" is that?

You reap what you sow.

If the Crossfire community wants to attract new members, my suggestions would be to:

• Remember that the majority of your readers are lurkers.
• Remember that the majority of the lurkers are probably Single Players.
• Be a little more courteous to those who do ask questions.
• Document the information that newbies need to know.
• Make information easier to find by using stickies, pointers to threads and messages, and the Quote feature rather than dumb-ass Quick Replies that make no sense to anyone other than the poster.
• A wiki would be great. Set it up, and maybe people will help populate it, wikipedia-style.

There are more than 2 Threads made to announce Crossfire 1.81, and 2 of them are made by other players than OP or admin staff... but if you miss a bit, or more, one or more than a week, not visiting the forum, you can pass over it

Also, in your suggestions, I notice much spoiling.
Giving all info newbies want is spoiling unless it's important... like if a newbie asks which is the best ship and where to buy, somebody tells he gets it, gets used to the 'best' and gets bored. Also a wiki, if people see aall what CFhas without having to work for it(explore, fight, having fun, killing aliens, etc) won't motivate ppl to play more the game, just a bit to take the best stuff, get used o it, bored, unmotivated, etc. Once you know it all, or mostly, you get bored of it, there are few ppl that are an exception to it, even they also have a limit

Would you play the something you already memorized again and again like a game cards with one combination(or the same puzzle) ? I don't think so. PPl have to remember the fun of discovering, exploring, experiencing the game by themselves, without somebody that spoils it all.

I think that we are mostly in agreement, Michael. Let's see whether we can fine-tune the thoughts a little, ok?:

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Originally posted by Michael
There are more than 2 Threads made to announce Crossfire 1.81

The above is an example of what I meant about using references or pointers to other threads and messages. When you provide a link to the threads that you discuss, then a statement such as yours is helpful. Without the link, it just appears as though you are being defensive without having an actual point. I'm not trying to be difficult... just hear me out:

I only see one thread matching your description: CF1.8>1.81. That thread was created while OP was still discussing whether or not he would have further updates and whether or not updates would happen through the launcher. Unless I missed something, his final word on the subject was "all updates will happen through the launcher". OK, so maybe he meant "all updates AFTER 1.81" but that is another example of my point about the tendency toward not communicating clearly that I see often here.

The point that I am trying to make is that, even though the CF1.8>1.81 thread has the correct solution, it is anything but clear when taken in context with the other threads posted around that date.

Another way of saying it is this: There is a LOT of noise on this board, and the actual content can be difficult to find.

Please do not take any of this personally or think that I am complaining -- In fact, I think that you are one of the better communicators around here. I am only using your remark as an example, for clarification. I hope that is "OK" with you!

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Originally posted by Michael
Also, in your suggestions, I notice much spoiling.

True.

As you know, I am fairly new here, and I try to follow examples set by others, who (including you) have given out more "complete solution spoilers" than I have. I try to give only hints. Nevertheless, as you point out, even the hints should be clearly marked and posted in the Freelancer Spoilers Forum.

I just figured out how the Spoiler button works (thanks, Arrow!) so I will use that, as well.

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Originally posted by Michael
Would you play the something you already memorized again and again like a game cards with one combination(or the same puzzle) ? I don't think so.

Right, exactly!

That is one of the reasons that I never took much interest in MP games. After meeting a few people, it is all the same. I get a lot more "workout" and more variation in gameplay in SP by varying the challenges.

I would be much more interested in an MP game that allowed for a little more variation. Perhaps a controlled amount of cheating, rather than the strict no-cheating policy? (And, no, I do not have a suggestion for how to implement that!)

As an analogy, I have always been more interested in rallying (leaders in both technology and style) than in the International Race of Champions (IROC), where all cars have identical preparation. While I can see a certain "pure" elegance in IROC, I find more entertainment in watching a good game of tennis!

But I also think that MP games are amazing technology and are terrific for those who enjoy them.

That is why we have choices.

Regarding the launcher issue, I will try again with 1.81. Thank you for that suggestion!

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Originally posted by Michael
...Giving all info newbies want is spoiling unless it's important... like if a newbie asks which is the best ship and where to buy, somebody tells he gets it, gets used to the 'best' and gets bored. Also a wiki, if people see aall what CFhas without having to work for it(explore, fight, having fun, killing aliens, etc) won't motivate ppl to play more the game, just a bit to take the best stuff, get used o it, bored, unmotivated, etc. Once you know it all, or mostly, you get bored of it, there are few ppl that are an exception to it, even they also have a limit

Quite the opposite, if handeled well.

Perhaps don't think of it as a WIKIpedia then kind of a LEXIpedia, where SOME information is given and shown, but not everything, especially nothing else about solutions for the quest, than general advise ("look carefully with your EYES for something", "talk to each and every bartender-lurker for rumors", etc.).
Where someone (especially newbies and POTENTIAL newbies) can browse a bit, what Crossfire has to give to them. Some screenshots, some ship-info (without buying-location, just that they ARE somewhere to get), some background stories.
And also some of the more vital information about the handling of the mod, a "What to do first..., second....", that would act like a smooth guide for every newbie into the world of Crossfire and its server.

Put this with a BIG RED SIGN on a BIG RED BUTTON already on the SWAT-portal. I'm quite sure it would have the potential of cutting down question by half, at least. [SIZE=1](Well, the spoiler-questions are something most likely unavoidable, if their is any kind of forum for any kind of game.)[/SIZE]
You would also have a great advertising for "bypassers". It would be a good teaser [SIZE=1](ofc, the best strippers NEVER show all. )[/SIZE]

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Originally posted by Bullwinkle

Right, exactly!

That is one of the reasons that I never took much interest in MP games. After meeting a few people, it is all the same. I get a lot more "workout" and more variation in gameplay in SP by varying the challenges.

I would be much more interested in an MP game that allowed for a little more variation. Perhaps a controlled amount of cheating, rather than the strict no-cheating policy? (And, no, I do not have a suggestion for how to implement that!)

Display More

[SIZE=1](Something I can only agree on.)[/SIZE]

I'm still playing "Tachyon: The Fringe", "XBTF-Goldedition" AND "Starlancer" three- to fourtimes a year, even though I might almost be able to fly some of the mission blindfolded. Perhaps BECAUSE of this and the remembrance of it. Every Spacesimulation, every simulation has its own atmosphere, creates its own, distinctive feeling, when you "live your life" there for the time playing. [SIZE=1]But maybe that's not so important to a dedicated multiplayer.[/SIZE]

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Originally posted by NucNuc

Are the NPCs "too" fast for you, Hellraiser ?

Hellraiser, [SIZE=3]please accept my apology ![/SIZE]

The NPCs, esp. the light fighters on the server are not only the "usual" pain in the arse, more concerned with the performance of movements of a drunken new ballet artist on speed than with trying to kill ME ( which even more sometimes kills my nerves [SIZE=1](hummh, ev. special tactics here ?)[/SIZE] ), as encountered on singleplay.

They often stopp, accelerate and decelerate without any (for humans normal, for MACHINES NORMAL, only If they're broken) delay from fullstopp to thruster-max-speed. And in the same way they strafe left-right-up and down (well, felt so, since its different from SP-NPC-behavior).
Still as beatable (takes more time) but utterly annoying.

Perhaps due to some "lag" between PC and server ?
[SIZE=1]( I will try to ask OP. )[/SIZE]

I still need to re-download CF as its now 1.81 and I dont have enough CAP to do so so I must wait until I get paid to download it again which is at the end of the month :(.....

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Originally posted by SYNKron
NucNuc.... i can see you hate so much the online server for unknown reason... tell me it is such a crime to click on the server --->connect---> choose char---> play happy ? . I don't know why you protect the singleplayer so much , its almost the same in multiplayer but in MP it's more interactive and you can spend your time in a very friendly community . Oh and please try not to argue... the purpose its to "expand" the Crossfire server not to collapse it. (to all)

If i didn't make my self clear... look at Discovery , prosperous and giant... don't you hate ? I mean we can do the same , our community is much more mature and pro (ofc several exception as it seems). This is our purpose guys ... when you interact with a forum so much , you must do it in game too , i don't know what you think but that's my humble opinion and much ppl agree with me as you can see.

Yep, true.

Hate it when i see 200 ppl online on that friking Discovery

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Originally posted by SYNKron
NucNuc.... i can see you hate so much the online server for unknown reason... tell me it is such a crime to click on the server --->connect---> choose char---> play happy ? . I don't know why you protect the singleplayer so much , its almost the same in multiplayer but in MP it's more interactive and you can spend your time in a very friendly community . Oh and please try not to argue... the purpose its to "expand" the Crossfire server not to collapse it. (to all) ...........

THIS is not to argue on you, SYNKron, but a try to avoid been misunderstood.

I DON'T hate the server or anybody who prefers playing on a server. You might get it from my post just the next one before your own I'm quoting from that I HAVE done,
what you advise: started playing on the server and began exploring, what this multiplayerexperience is made of.

Also to find out the differences between MP and SP.

Furthermore, I din't know, that SP needs to be protected. All I do is putting a spotlight on a part of CF, where it is ABSOLULY UNIQUE and FAR AHEAD all other mods in the whole FL-community,
a part that seems to me a bit underrepresented.
SP is, at least in that way, different to playing on a server, that it is sometimes better to integrate with Real Life for a lot of people.
Especially for people, who are a bit further ahead in lifetime and maybe already bonded in more responsibilities than you.

Let us bring down the volume, SP is nice and so is MP. MP has a vast amount of possibilities, which will be surely explored. There are people who have responsibilities and play MP.

My question is, how many times are you going too play the campaign? After sometime it should get boring playing only SP. You can play both also, think of MP an expanded game.

Anyway I just felt like there was heat for no good reason.

Nice idea on the original post, I am one of those SP too MP people, although I only played SP too get used too a few things.

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Originally posted by I am D
Let us bring down the volume, SP is nice and so is MP.

...

Nice idea on the original post

Good points, I-am-D.

As Synkron points out, the motivation behind creating Crossfire was MP. On the other hand, the download statistics suggest that there are many more SP players -- like ten to one hundred times more SP players.

Does it really matter who plays SP or MP? There is room in the world for both kinds of players.

SP and MP are very different games. To say one is "better" than the other is like saying that apples are better than oranges. They are, simply, different.

Sure, nobody is going to play the same campaign forever, but that is not how many (most?) of us play SP. I flew a Dagger to Menton with difficulty_scale set to 2.0. The wings got blown off, but that only made the Dagger a smaller target and harder to hit.

The trip was a lot of fun, and it is a challenge that cannot easily be done in MP (without a change to the mod or a coordinated effort between multiple players).

I don't care at all who plays what. Crossfire may be the best SP mod for Freelancer already. And Crossfire is on the path to becoming the best MP mod as it matures.

So why argue about which is better? Crossfire is good for both communities.

So, yeah, I am just agreeing with you, I-am-D.

Peace!

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Originally posted by NucNuc
I would like to ask [SIZE=3]WHY[/SIZE] it is so damn important for Crossfire and/or SWAT as a whole, that the server is as populated as possible ?

because of the simple fact that if the server is not well polutated then ill close it for the simple fact that the clans dont have members and cant pay for their systems. I wont pay for an empty server, and when that server has to shut down i will also close down the CF mod, remove it from everywhere and will not develop new versions.

next to that explaination id like to point out that i asked this community at the last meeting to work on a PR campaign, news, ads, videos
i have no idea what has been done so far... but actually it is their problem if they want to play on a full server or an empty one while risking that it might shut down somewhen.

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Originally posted by SWAT_OP-R8R
i asked this community at the last meeting to work on a PR campaign, news, ads, videos

What "meeting", OP? Did I miss a community meeting, or was it a private meeting only for the people working on Crossfire?

I saw your post that looked like "minutes" of a meeting, but the meeting itself appeared to be private. If so, that's fine... I am just asking.

I would participate in a public meeting if I knew about it ahead of time.