PC upgrade

There are 95 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by Martind Forlon.

  • I know that it is little necroposting :toocool: ... but in last few weeks I was thinking if to upgrade CPU from Intel Core i5-8400 to Intel Core i9-9900KF (which is available in local shops for 330-355 € and should be compatible with MB). Dunno if it is good idea or not .. see note below.


    Actual PC:

    • MB MSI Z370 TOMAHAWK, s.1151 (with latest bios 04/2021)
    • PS Seasonic Energy Knight SS-500ET, T3 500W
    • CPU INTEL Core i5-8400 (2.8GHz, 9MB, 6c) LGA1151 Coffee_Lake, 65W
    • CPU Silentium PC Fera 3 HE1224 v2, 120mm fan
    • DIMM Kingston HyperX Predator_DDR4 16GB (Kit 2x8GB) 3200MHz CL16 DIMM 1.35V
    • MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Ti GAMING 8G, 8GB GDDR5
    • HD SAMSUNG SSD 960 EVO MZ-V6E250, 250GB + Samsung SSD 970 EVO 500GB MZ-V7E500BW + one older classic 7200 RPM HDD (think 500 GB)
    • playing in 1080p - ProLite E2483HS monitor 24''

    Note: with latest DLC for ED I saw that my CPU is also going to its max and adding more performance may be good ... I know that main gaming performance gain is coming from GPU, but with current prices it is absolute no go :(

  • Have you noticed that you need a faster CPU? I guess that should be the deciding factor.


    You would gain 2 additional cores and hyperthreading with such an upgrade. The power consumption would be doubled (you should check if your cooler can handle 130TDP). It might run but it might run a bit hot. You probably should test the performance in your current system with max load.


    You might gain +10FPS in games and maybe 10-20% extra performance outside games.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • SilentiumPC Fera 3 HE1224 v2 should handle 180W, is still available in local shops (middle priced coolers with good reviews). I hit roof regularly with old CPU so yes, I want to get better one. I also do not intend to overclock it (never liked do it), so I hope cooling will be ok. What I'm not so completely sure is power source which I have ... it works with setup above perfectly well and stable, but dunno how to check power needs for new CPU. Is obvious that I will need new PS when will do graphic card upgrade sometime in the future, but for now I would rather like to avoid such step.

  • The issue with the 180W that the manufacturer claims is that it is unlikely an realistic value. It most likely is based on not likely test conditions with low and stable room temperatures and perfect airflow.

    It does not help you to have a CPU with ~15% more performance which then thermal throttles on a warm summer day.


    My i7-8700k has a TDP of 95W and I have a Le Grand Macho RT with two relative good BeQuiet Fans. The cooler is rated for 320W and would under full load reach ~85°C... with mild overclock (which I actually don't do, because I never needed it) it does reach ~93°C. Over 100°C thermal throtteling would start. Depending on ambient room temperatures these values could vary (this are just the values I remember from back when I build that PC and tested it).


    The Fera 3 is not a bad cooler but it actually is not range of a high-end cooler for high TDPs.


    Fera 3

    SPC_Fera3_pht_sl.jpg?resize=678%2C381&ssl=1



    Le Grand Mach RT

    installed1.jpg


    4 vs 8 heatpipes



    You still can try if it works and then at a later point replace the cooler if really needed. I can not for sure tell if it works or if it does't. This requires tests... and also is highly dependent on the quality of the new ship. There are huge differences sometimes with the silicon quality.

    There even is the option to buy a used cooler for little money on ebay... if the pics show no damages everything should be fine. Even if the fans are broken... you can easily replace them with different ones.


    About the power consumption:

    Power Supply calculator - calc for silent PSUs from be quiet!

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • hmm, it explains few things, thx!. But I will definitelly need to check pc case dimensions first, because that cooler you have seems is really huge :bcrying:

  • Quick check what is avilable here shows: DARK ROCK PRO 4 ... not so high tdp (250 W), but I use it as starting point for further search.

  • When selecting a big cooler you also should consider how much space you have towards the rams.

    Keep in mind that some big coolers + fan might overlap the first ram slot. If you have high profile ram this might be a problem.

    If you look at the picture of the Grand Macho RT cooler you can see that the heat pipes are bent into the oposite direction to allow enough clearance for the ram (and in case of the first ram slot it is still pretty close).


    But there are smaller big block or dual tower coolers.... the one I have is just damn big.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • .. and here goes that fast/cheap and easy CPU change :bohsw:.



    I checked how it look in my PC and there is some additonal free space around, but definitelly not much in direction towards RAM modules which are high, and also there is not much free space above cooler. I attached few images.


    Edit by
    ...

    Hmm, thinking about it again, and maybe in this case I will ask one IT company which I used few times in the past (and was very satisfied) which can order/return parts and check cooler installation in real conditions without risking to buy something what will be not possible use. It is little too costly for trying blind luck by myself ... and I'm really glad for advices/tips given!

  • Current PC:

    • CPU Silentium PC Fera 3 HE1224 v2, 120mm fan (can use my old own noctua fan or add it as 2nd one)
    • CPU INTEL Core i5-8400 (2.8GHz, 9MB, 6j) LGA1151 Coffee_Lake, 65W
    • SilentiumPC Fera 3 HE1224 v2
    • DIMM Kingston HyperX Predator_DDR4 16GB (Kit 2x8GB) 3200MHz CL16 DIMM 1.35V
    • HD SAMSUNG SSD 960 EVO MZ-V6E250, 250GB
    • MB MSI Z370 TOMAHAWK, s.1151
    • MSI GeForce GTX 1070 Ti GAMING 8G, 8GB GDDR5
    • Seasonic Energy Knight SS-500ET, T3 500W


    OK, time have little progressed from time I build my PC above and I'm thinking about 2 phase upgrade which should be new PC with "old" graphic card and purchase new graphic (thinking about 4700 or so) somewhere at next year end.


    I look now at:

    • MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI
    • Intel Core i5-12600K
    • ram ... thinking about keep what I have now (above)
    • SSD ... have now 2 (250 and 500GB) .. should be enough, but I may buy 1TB if needed)
    • case?
    • power supply?
    • cooler?

    Any advice/suggestions are welcomed

  • Go to the mainboard website and check if the old ram is compatible.

    Every board manufacturer has such compatibility lists somewhere in the support section. If the ram not on the list then you might have troubles activating xmp or overclocking it manually.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • It looks like my RAM (HW info shows module name: KHX3200C16D4/8GX) is not on the list, but when I check this module on my current MB compatibility list, then it also isn't there. I guess will need to hope that it will work well (like it does now), but I will be ready to buy new memory modules. Still I wonder if there is some real advantage with purchasing DDR5.

  • It might still might run even if it is not on the list. Actually what I pointed out might be non-sense in your case.

    I have not looked into hardware stuff for a pretty long time since my meanwhile 5-6 years old PC still can run everything pretty fine.

    But if I am not mistaken the newer boards by default have jedec 3200 certification for ddr4. So the compatibility list I mentioned would be relevant only for ram faster than that.

    You are most certainly fine to run the modules you already have at their max speed as long you don't accidentally buy a ddr5 version of the z790 (I think there are differences in slot design).



    The processor would be a big step forward with probably ~70% more performance and the option for overclocking. Truth be told... eventhough I can overclock my CPU I actually never do that. It was fun to play around that that stuff in the beginning but in daily use it not really worth thinking about that option.

    What you probably should keep in mind is that the new CPU needs 125 watt power, your old one only 65.

    The cooler you have might work as it is rated for 180W... but the fans might be very busy. Essentially you can test it and if it turns into too much noise due to active fans you probably should consider a bigger air cooler. At first you probably could just try to use the old one.


    The PSU is rated 80+.

    So lets say there is a 20% loss... you would have 400W left to run the PC.

    -125W for CPU under full load (without overclocking)

    -180W for GPU (without overclocking)

    = 95W left for mainboard, outputs, fans (dunno how many you intend to run), HDD/SSDs, RAM and of course fancy rainbow puke (because every gaming PC has to have it these days).

    It might be just enough to run the PC. Yes, it might work, you can try it but if you get blue screens the first thing I would check is the PSU.

    And you should certainly avoid charging your mobile phone via the PCs USB ports.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Ok it seams that you like Intel so if you allready decided to go there think obout good cooling system and powerfull PSU. That mobo is too expencive for that CPU but its so cool and you cant mistake with tomahawk boards. And why you talking obout RAM compatibility when you have to buy new RAM cos u used DDR4 by now and dont question DDR5 i mean double speed?

    Obout PSU you will be happy with 500W 80+ for that graphic card you curently using but if you plan to upgrade to better graphic card you will definetly need stronger PSU like 750W or stronger i recomend Seasonic or Corsair. And what you mean by 4700 i dont understand which one is that? Is it 4070 maybe? For the case it depence what are your budget i normally recomend be quiet but its expencive so go with any you like but go with airflow variants. I dont recomend small cases. I use water cooling NZXT AIO and im more then happy. I tested that CPU you plan to use and in cinebench with stock cooler rly bad results cos it was throtling temps was 90 degrees and higher. So you can go with good air cooler (Cooler master cheapest but good) or more expencive water systems. A friend use Cooler Master HYPER 212 BLACK EDITION with that CPU you plan to use and temps are rly good and i pack all of his components along with RTX 3070Ti in Be Quiet Silent base 802 i mean that case is more the good :D temps was never obove 65 degrees for both CPU and GPU even in heavy workloads.

  • I think the gradual update from one system to another is mostly a matter of $.

    Just checked the prices for ddr ram. Did not expect them to have fallen in price that dramatically. Last time I checked the prices were sky high and rising.

    Essentially DDR5 could be worth a thought but no. DDR5 is not 50% faster than DDR4 and there are even use cases where DDR4 is better.

    While DDR5 supports high clock speeds and high transfer rates most modules have very high cycle values which negate the high clock speeds again, especially when dealing with many small data packages. The use case would be important to make a good decision.

    I some time ago posted a formula and examples about how to calculate the true ram speed instead of just judging by fancy clock speed numbers.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • For CPU cooling I think about this: Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black ... it clearly is not a cheap cooler, but should do its work very well. Water_cooling is not my cup of tea and the same are AMD builds ... it may be shiny and perfect, but here I'm traditionalist and going with Intel. With this I think even more about new case including PSU ... my PC's case is older more as 15 years :)

  • And OP was right about my reasons for gradual upgrade ... money are playing important role (anyone have own experience with family budget and wife's look on playing games? ;)), and this is a main reason why I want buy graphic card later, ideally split the total price in half. With more digging about hardware choices I start think whether go for more performance CPU (up to Intel Core i7-13700K)


    ... I very likely will stay in 1080p, but some of new games are quite demanding for power of CPUs and GPUs at once.

  • The nh-d15 always is a good choice. Its been a top recommendation for many years.

    Water cooling is nice and clean looking but also more expensive while also more risky. Custom looks are not really for beginners and AIOs usually don't have any repair options while also being more complex than air coolers. If the pump breaks you can buy a new AIO, same with the radiator. When air coolers malfunction you just replace the fan and are good to go again without any major costs.

    The benefit water coolers have is that they can compensate heat spikes better. I just dont think you would encounter such very often.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Going little higher as was my initial personal price limit, but here is current pick:

    • Fractal Design Focus 2 Black Solid (case)
    • Be quiet! PURE POWER 11 700W
    • MSI MAG Z790 TOMAHAWK WIFI
    • Intel Core i7-13700K
    • Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black

    For GPU will be aim at RTX 4070 or 4070 Ti, but this is coming later :) . I may also reconsider buying 2x8 GB DDR5 ram modules, but this also later.


    edit: 4070 seems may be better choice: https://pc-builds.com/bottleneck-calculator/result/1jc1fl/1/general-tasks/1920x1080/

  • What do you mean with DDR5 later?

    When you buy a board you either buy one compatible with ddr4 or with ddr5.

    You can not switch later without replacing the board.

    signew.jpg


    cfmoddblogo.png5904.png5904.png
    http://www.moddb.com/scripts/topsite.php?ts=4766


    Only dead fish swim with the stream.
    Don't discuss with idiots. They only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience there.


    This is ten percent luck,
    Twenty percent skill,
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will,
    Five percent pleasure,
    Fifty percent pain,
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

  • Ohh … lol, I thought that board can use both types 😄 …. Well, this clearly was not the most brilliant show of pc building knowledge. And not even reading skills since they write it in descriptions with bold letters 😂. Thx, it means to add ram modules to my list.


    16 or 32GB? ... not sure if todays gaming need more as16?


    hmm ... it looks like there may be good idea chose ram with XMP support since i use intel build. Need dig little deeper in this.