Projectile Speed

There are 3 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by MeVriS.

  • I haven't found any similar threats regarding this and as change to numerous projectile speed values would massively impact the way the game is being played I'm suggesting this on a very, veeeery carefull basis. But I still feel it needs to be adressed in some way as space sims or simulations in general try to be as close to reality as possible while still providing fun gameplay.
    Simply said: The thought of laser based weapon's "Projectiles" travelling at speeds ranging from 700 to 1100 m/s is plainly mind boggling :huh: as even most common used projectiles these days reach that speed inside eath's dense atmosphere and with gravity pulling them down. I mean, if being overly realistic, even spacecraft could easily outrun these "Lasers".
    Laser rays would travel at about 0.99 lightspeed in normal space relatively close to a star which would be about 299.000 km(!)/s
    I don't say you should change every laser's projectile speed to that degree as you'd technical wouldn't even see any shiny pewpew anymore but you could triple or quadruple the speed (to create the illusion of light speed) and drastically reduce the damage of laser and many particle based weapons.
    The aiming assist of FL is broken anyway. Anything farther away than 400m and not moving directly towards you or away from you'd only hit if it doesn't change direction at all as your weapons fix themselfes to that tiny red cross as soon as your crosshair gets close to it.
    So while making lasers less usefull at close ranges with reducing their damage they''d instead become more like the "sniper" category of weapons as the improved projectile speed would counter the horrible aiming assist - I mean it IS horrible. Sometimes my weapons even completely switch targets on their own if another ship is slightly ahead of and very close to my current target. Call me stupid but I haven't yet found a way to turn the assist off. If anyone knows how, please, pleeeeease share your knowledge with me, oh wisest of elders :love:
    If you consider this request stupid simply ignore it and don't be mad at me. There's some contra, no doubt but the pro would be whole new weapon category without even introducing new weapons at all. And a new support ship role as well for group pve and pvp. On it's own a ship with these situational weapons would be highly outclassed against the standard close range brawler but they'd shine at long ranges. Maybe raising the power consumption as well would further limit their close range capabilities.
    Technical I don't see any obstacles besides the question: can the graphics engine even handle projectiles moving that fast or would they blur or flicker in a way that would not be asthetic at all? Asthetic isn't a main concern but I still believe it quite important.

  • Hello,
    I was always thinking that "Laser Weapons" in FL were called so because lasers had something to do with the gun's internal mechanisms rather than because they really fired laser beams... Otherwise they should have infinite range in addition to light speed, and beams should be invisible until they hit something - this is actually one of the most popular arguments against "physics" in space opera genre, with another one being "sound in space" which FL also uses to the max :) (along with a whole bunch of funny physics like fixed speed of a spacecraft with working engines, tiny immobile planets and stars, absense of gravity, irrealistic collisions etc etc...)


    To my mind, this absense of realism greatly contributes to Freelancer being such an awesome game, and while it might be possible within the engine limits to make one or two things work in a more realistic way, I think it is neither necessary nor will it have a positive outcome - take inertia introduced with CF 1.9 for example (thankfully it is almost removed now).


    Freelancer engine does allow to create weapons with huge range and projectile speed and even a refire rate so fast that projectiles look like continuous beams, there was a mod called "Plasmafire" where one could see such things in action, but that mod replaced all weaponry in game. Crossfire is totally different from this aspect as it preserves vanilla FL guns intact, and this is why adding something fundamentally different from them can easily ruin the balance between original and modded content.


    ...in my opinion :S


    - Wanderer -

    Edited once, last by (IOC)Wanderer: syntax/grammar ().

  • I would be careful with the assumption that game mechanics like speed and distance have to be realistic
    the games design has one major priority... being playable

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  • I definitely see your viewpoints there. Playability is the main concern for me as well that's why was carefull about this and asking if it would be possible. I already shared my thoughts about the most likely outcome (in my opinion, that is). It would just be nice to have some diversity in your loadouts as off now there really isn't. You either use the weapons with a high fire rate or a lower fire rate or a mix of both if their projectile speed is matching. But overall there is not much difference other than personal preferences.
    The fact that changes to some degree would at least implicy a more realistic universe is just a nice side effect to this. It just would cover a wider variety of playstyles. Of couse it would mean that some guns wouldn't be as much used as other guns, especially in 1v1 pvp but that is the case already anyway. People mostly use either the Coalition Gatlings or the PPC and maybe some alien weapons as they are basically the same weapons with slightly different damage values. As for the balance: Vanilla Freelancer never was a particularly well balanced game as there where always guns or modules in general that where straight up better than others. That's not bad at all as it encourages you to search for this better stuff but just adding more variety to already existing weapons wouldn't nessecarily break this concept, it just would mean an awfull lot of testing and balancing but as the weapons never where really well balanced in the first place you guys could only improve it ;)
    There are already different roles for pilots for working together as a team, especially in bigger events. There are battleships, repair ships, bombers and stuff and they do fit together quite good but when you're out exploring in a small team with your friends or maybe clan mates with only some VHF there are only little options to do things. In fact, almost everyone has the same stuff on similar ships with only little degrees in variation. Maybe one has a ship with more b/b on it for sharing if nessecary. maybe one has a ship with more cargo to haul all that stuff you come across. That's good as it is but in case of weaponry there does pretty much only one doctrine exist as an awful lot of other options right now are either not effective or simply not existant.
    You allready have a pretty much none combat effecting role system with mercs and smugglers, etc. Why not giving the player the option to choose from different combat roles, aside from which ship you are piloting? The long range lasers are just one option to choose from and it's still a pretty much raw idea that could be adjusted. I even have to admit, I have developed this idea more or less on the run. My first concern was that slow moving laser-projectile-whatever-thingies where somehow bothering me but somehow as I kept on writing... this whole idea came up ?(
    Hopefully you guys can figure out what I'm trying to suggest here but for me the whole idea is kinda intrigueing. Personally I'd like some more variety, some factor "x" you'd have to handle in larger engagements or engagements in general. And hopefully you can see the point. It would be a change but if done propperly it wouldn't break the game. Personally I don't have much experience with other mods beside Crossfire as I stopped playing freelancer shortly after it was out and I was through the campaign, There weren't many good mods around that time and so I lost interest in the multiplayer pretty fast as, beside occasional dogfights somewhere in omicron with everyone piloting Titan, Sabre or Eagle, the game offered little to do. You changed that a lot and keep changing and adding things even now, more than 10 years after release and you're doing a pretty damn good job at it and CF 2.0 is already loaded into the tubes, ready for launch but if you don't intend to stop after 2.0 you need ideas for 2.1 and 2.2 and 8.9 8)
    This would be such an idea I believe. Just make a note, stick it to your wall and if time comes to give it a second thought you can still decide whether to do it or to let it be just a note on your wall ;)