FOV Setting->Re Opened

I will leave this open because it is an important topic, but I will close it again if it get's off topic again.

Since my post in General Discussion lead to such high emotions, and the thread was closed, I would like to make a suggestion in this matter for 1.9.
You could implement a wider variety of camera settings ingame. Like Height, Angle, FOV. Maybe for PvP it's true that one specific setting would be somewhat optimal,
but in every other situation, you could find a thing that suits everyone of you.

And if this would lead to more gun usage, ( I don't know if there is an agenda for weapon balance in pvp? ) then just change damage values ( if there is an Agenda )

So everybody would have the exact same possibilities!

One last remark, for people who play with widescreen monitors, any enemy ship moves faster with standard FOV 70 settings ( real more cm/s ). Consider that as a serious disadvantage, and I would bet my *** that this makes a difference too.
Just run this example into the extreme where FOV 70 is streched to about 180 actual FOV if you sit in front of your PC. You wouldn't see a thing... Like sitting in first row in an action movie...

Supplemental : OFF-TOPIC generally englobles arguing, fighting, insulting, trolling, etc... They are the worst kind of OFF-TOPIC we may find in nature. Some jokes will be tolerated as long as the thread doesn't veer entirely on a side/funny subject. Thank you for being in class today !

EDIT : Tensing i moved you new post here cause it got reopened to continue the valid point of FOV settings.

I can tell you OP worked on built-in widescreen support for CF1.9 but i don't know where it ended... hopefully it'll save us the trouble of editing config files to view CF on any kind of screen !

I am quite stubborn as Bond has noticed someday and I have some forum experience, so I saved my expertise. Here it comes again, reedited to remove emotional content:

FOV SETTING EXPERTISE - UNITED REBEL LABS

This case come to the light only because I started trolling Dil Bahadur / Tensing about him being a aimbotter / cheater. He denied and described his gaming experience and hardware. He is a vet CS player with 2000 DPI mouse and I think that this can make a difference in every game that needs targetting. Then he admitted in addition to latter, that he has a widescreen display and have applied obvious to any google user resolution hack for widescreens. Here it is -> FOV 90 for widescreen. Year 2008, so it isn't new and I guess everybody with 16:10 displays use it to repair game's looks. He didn't know that the change of FOV in this game does give an advantage, because it isn't giving any advantage besides wider vision in FPS games. We tested it in Arena and Gunny may testify here, that Dil / Tensing got his ass kicked very hard (2 times on rampage), so it's not aimbotting as some have accused - if he had an aimbot, I wouldn't be able win vs 6x Ther'hon. I will explain where lies the problem.

We, UR, just did field research on the subject and our findings show, that this small modification of viewport (which is permitted in every FPS in the world) has serious impact on gun usage, because of invalid gun handling code. The game was written with bad exception for gun turn angle - what I mean is when you have FOV 70, you can turn your guns only to the edge of the screen, BUT it isn't the farthest point to which guns can turn. If you increase the FOV you will see more on your sides and here lies the problem, guns turn farther. I have documented shooting to the side with nearly 90 degree from the ship's forward axis.

Take a look:
Too clear things out: I have a philips 170C SXGA 5:4 1280:1024 resolution display, thus I HAD to change resolution, because those offered by FL by default made game look like doom2 and cut half of the performance. I didn't change FOV, because 70 was default for 4:3 and 5:4 (I have wrong HUD placement though, look for spaces between hud and top of the screen). Changing FOV to higher in my case will make the game force wider view into now wider screen and thereby will cause abberrations. If you have widescreen, you will have abberrations if you DON'T change FOV, because you have smaller view streched on wider resolution. Now why everybody with widescreen has an advantage if he makes game not look shitty on his display?

This is classic FOV 70, mouse flight is off, I am placing my targeting box on the edge of my screen, look where the projectiles go.

This is widescreen FOV 90 with very slight abberrations on my 5:4 screen, targeting box on the edge of my screen, projectiles go still in the same place, but my view is wider.

This is FOV 120, notice obvious abberrations, I played UT most of the time in such setting, still targeting on the edge, my guns fire on even bigger angle.

This is FOV 160, gameplay is impossible, because objects just vanish (engine can't resize them?), I am still targeting on the edge of my screen and shoot on almost 80 degree from my fighter's forward axis.

This is turret view screencap documenting how far to the side guns can shoot. This reminds me galleons fighting in line of battle tactic.

This is one of the problems.

The second one are distances and field of vision itself. With greater FOV you can see your enemy longer and you have better info about his tactic and manouvering. That's not all - it's also easier to target because of shorter distances you have to travel with your targeting reticule. There is absolutely no solution for this problem and that's why FOV manipulation is used in FPS games - it just helps and is widely used by progamers. I have been a league Unreal Tournament player about 9 years ago and I have played on FOV 120, 150 and even 180 (this is hardcore). FOV modification is considered a client configuration in FPS games and is not considered cheating, because there are no exploits to be done by using FOV. In FL however you can shoot with your guns farther and that's why Tensing/Dil was able to hit me with my evasive strafed long-circles style when he changed to FOV 90. There is no other explanation for this: when he was on 70 I was beyond his screen, when he was on 90 I was on his screen and his guns turned further.

Possible solutions:
I have found at least few solutions to the presented problem.

First would be to research the maximum firing angle on FOV 70. It can be done by hanging with one fighter above the test subject and doing screencaps, then we can measure the angle between forward axis of the ship and between firing line. Afterwards OP can, I hope, lock this value as the maximum gun turn. This will make everybody shoot at the reducted side range and make having higher FOVs fair (at least when it comes to guns).

Second is to lock FOV values by server and make game run in 4:3 or 5:4 resolutions on widescreens with black fields on both sides. I play games on my 16:10 laptop this way, it's possible. The ini files of the game need to be protected by some kind of anti-cheat protection in this case. This will pose problems nevertheless for everybody playing on non-default resolutions, like 2048x1536, because of the HUD errors.

Third is to lock guns in forward firing only mode, just like in Freespace, but I am afraid, that such change would rape whole FL and defeat the whole idea.

And 4rd and last, which is a half-solution and is adressed mostly to Aces and people who know how to fly:
Let us not forget that in configuration there are controls for UP and DOWN strafe. The widescreen FOV 90 and all higher FOVs make sense only if someone is evading your fire to the left or right, because that's where your vision is enlarged. If someone evades to the top or to the bottom, well, that's where the lower and upper screen edges come in play just like before. These screens are WIDE not HIGH
(I hope my thinking isn't failing here, haven't tested it yet).

There is no solution (besides ini lockdown) to people changing FOV to higher and seeing more. If we let people with widescreens play on widescreen resolutions, we have to let them change FOV or the game will look terrible. If we let them change FOV, well, that places them in advanteged position anyway just because they are seeing more.

I suggest introducing the first solution - max gun angle lock - as fast as possible and letting people change FOV freely, because it's still client-side config modification. Same situation happened in FPS progaming community: noobs didn't know about possiblity of wider FOV, they were pissed by more pro players seeing them from seemingly impossible angles, but eventually when they started to learn how to play, they chose their prefered FOV too.

In most games multi-display is prohibitted just by good taste btw, something like local non-reloading.

it's about time.

So.... You see ship from bigger distance, which make your screen "bigger".. and then, you can move your mouse further, which allows you to turn faster( just like 1600x1200 ) and it's easier to aim.
Sounds like exploit

The Problem is a bit more complex... If you have a widescreen and don't use FOV 90 you have a disadvantage ( everything moves faster ). If you use FOV 90 you have an advantage ( you see more due to broader monitor ). So both ways someone loses.

There is no easy solution to this, since no wide screen user wants to play with a crappy image. And no 4:3 User wants to have a disadvantage either...
Like Verbose said, in many PvP based FPS games, this was an option made by every user as they pleased.

And making this able for all players, would at least be a way where noone could critisize another person. Since everyone has the same possibilities...

BTW you can't turn faster... the ship has the maximum angular velocity when the cursor is on the edge of the screen. And this velocity is determined in another ini file!

Quote from [UR]Mr_Verbose

I am quite stubborn as Bond has noticed someday and I have some forum experience, so I saved my expertise. Here it comes again, reedited to remove emotional content:

FOV SETTING EXPERTISE - UNITED REBEL LABS

This case come to the light only because I started trolling Dil Bahadur / Tensing about him being a aimbotter / cheater. He denied and described his gaming experience and hardware. He is a vet CS player with 2000 DPI mouse and I think that this can make a difference in every game that needs targetting. Then he admitted in addition to latter, that he has a widescreen display and have applied obvious to any google user resolution hack for widescreens. Here it is -> FOV 90 for widescreen. Year 2008, so it isn't new and I guess everybody with 16:10 displays use it to repair game's looks. He didn't know that the change of FOV in this game does give an advantage, because it isn't giving any advantage besides wider vision in FPS games. We tested it in Arena and Gunny may testify here, that Dil / Tensing got his ass kicked very hard (2 times on rampage), so it's not aimbotting as some have accused - if he had an aimbot, I wouldn't be able win vs 6x Ther'hon. I will explain where lies the problem.

We, UR, just did field research on the subject and our findings show, that this small modification of viewport (which is permitted in every FPS in the world) has serious impact on gun usage, because of invalid gun handling code. The game was written with bad exception for gun turn angle - what I mean is when you have FOV 70, you can turn your guns only to the edge of the screen, BUT it isn't the farthest point to which guns can turn. If you increase the FOV you will see more on your sides and here lies the problem, guns turn farther. I have documented shooting to the side with nearly 90 degree from the ship's forward axis.

Take a look:
Too clear things out: I have a philips 170C SXGA 5:4 1280:1024 resolution display, thus I HAD to change resolution, because those offered by FL by default made game look like doom2 and cut half of the performance. I didn't change FOV, because 70 was default for 4:3 and 5:4 (I have wrong HUD placement though, look for spaces between hud and top of the screen). Changing FOV to higher in my case will make the game force wider view into now wider screen and thereby will cause abberrations. If you have widescreen, you will have abberrations if you DON'T change FOV, because you have smaller view streched on wider resolution. Now why everybody with widescreen has an advantage if he makes game not look shitty on his display?

This is classic FOV 70, mouse flight is off, I am placing my targeting box on the edge of my screen, look where the projectiles go.

This is widescreen FOV 90 with very slight abberrations on my 5:4 screen, targeting box on the edge of my screen, projectiles go still in the same place, but my view is wider.

This is FOV 120, notice obvious abberrations, I played UT most of the time in such setting, still targeting on the edge, my guns fire on even bigger angle.

This is FOV 160, gameplay is impossible, because objects just vanish (engine can't resize them?), I am still targeting on the edge of my screen and shoot on almost 80 degree from my fighter's forward axis.

This is turret view screencap documenting how far to the side guns can shoot. This reminds me galleons fighting in line of battle tactic.

This is one of the problems.

The second one are distances and field of vision itself. With greater FOV you can see your enemy longer and you have better info about his tactic and manouvering. That's not all - it's also easier to target because of shorter distances you have to travel with your targeting reticule. There is absolutely no solution for this problem and that's why FOV manipulation is used in FPS games - it just helps and is widely used by progamers. I have been a league Unreal Tournament player about 9 years ago and I have played on FOV 120, 150 and even 180 (this is hardcore). FOV modification is considered a client configuration in FPS games and is not considered cheating, because there are no exploits to be done by using FOV. In FL however you can shoot with your guns farther and that's why Tensing/Dil was able to hit me with my evasive strafed long-circles style when he changed to FOV 90. There is no other explanation for this: when he was on 70 I was beyond his screen, when he was on 90 I was on his screen and his guns turned further.

Possible solutions:
I have found at least few solutions to the presented problem.

First would be to research the maximum firing angle on FOV 70. It can be done by hanging with one fighter above the test subject and doing screencaps, then we can measure the angle between forward axis of the ship and between firing line. Afterwards OP can, I hope, lock this value as the maximum gun turn. This will make everybody shoot at the reducted side range and make having higher FOVs fair (at least when it comes to guns).

Second is to lock FOV values by server and make game run in 4:3 or 5:4 resolutions on widescreens with black fields on both sides. I play games on my 16:10 laptop this way, it's possible. The ini files of the game need to be protected by some kind of anti-cheat protection in this case. This will pose problems nevertheless for everybody playing on non-default resolutions, like 2048x1536, because of the HUD errors.

Third is to lock guns in forward firing only mode, just like in Freespace, but I am afraid, that such change would rape whole FL and defeat the whole idea.

And 4rd and last, which is a half-solution and is adressed mostly to Aces and people who know how to fly:
Let us not forget that in configuration there are controls for UP and DOWN strafe. The widescreen FOV 90 and all higher FOVs make sense only if someone is evading your fire to the left or right, because that's where your vision is enlarged. If someone evades to the top or to the bottom, well, that's where the lower and upper screen edges come in play just like before. These screens are WIDE not HIGH
(I hope my thinking isn't failing here, haven't tested it yet).

There is no solution (besides ini lockdown) to people changing FOV to higher and seeing more. If we let people with widescreens play on widescreen resolutions, we have to let them change FOV or the game will look terrible. If we let them change FOV, well, that places them in advanteged position anyway just because they are seeing more.

I suggest introducing the first solution - max gun angle lock - as fast as possible and letting people change FOV freely, because it's still client-side config modification. Same situation happened in FPS progaming community: noobs didn't know about possiblity of wider FOV, they were pissed by more pro players seeing them from seemingly impossible angles, but eventually when they started to learn how to play, they chose their prefered FOV too.

In most games multi-display is prohibitted just by good taste btw, something like local non-reloading.

Display More

lol how touchy dude...just before few days u was n00b here (ur words) than u become missile expert in few days, now u are gunner expert.What is next.
And u know timing is fucking important thing and i pay attention what and when u said.Just to let you know, before few days you was naive as French maid (this is saying here) and at every question ur answer was: "Idk why and idk what happening here^^"

Other then this, good post ...>_>

Quote from Tensing

The Problem is a bit more complex... If you have a widescreen and don't use FOV 90 you have a disadvantage ( everything moves faster ). If you use FOV 90 you have an advantage ( you see more due to broader monitor ). So both ways someone loses.

There is no easy solution to this, since no wide screen user wants to play with a crappy image. And no 4:3 User wants to have a disadvantage either...
Like Verbose said, in many PvP based FPS games, this was an option made by every user as they pleased.

And making this able for all players, would at least be a way where noone could critisize another person. Since everyone has the same possibilities...

BTW you can't turn faster... the ship has the maximum angular velocity when the cursor is on the edge of the screen. And this velocity is determined in another ini file!

Display More

Guys this was TOP secret here, along with few others i wonder how powerful i will become one day...

Quote from Bond

lol how touchy dude...just before few days u was n00b here (ur words) than u become missile expert in few days, now u are gunner expert.What is next.
And u know timing is fucking important thing and i pay attention what and when u said.Just to let you know, before few days you was naive as French maid (this is saying here) and at every question ur answer was: "Idk why and idk what happening here^^"

Other then this, good post ...>_>

Guys this was TOP secret here, along with few others i wonder how powerful i will become one day...

Display More

Ehehehe u just take the word from my mouth... now i wonder what will come next?
I played UT for a couple years and i also use the fov at 120 but i never dream it would de possible to do in FL.
the things that we learn

Quote from Tensing

BTW you can't turn faster... the ship has the maximum angular velocity when the cursor is on the edge of the screen. And this velocity is determined in another ini file!

So, you was testing that? Using? Or just "accidently" found?
As far I remember, serverrules dont allow any modifications of CF..

What hapen if i play on a 52" TV Plasma screen? with 1600x1200 res?

Moved to correct area