Nobel Prize for Peace to ... Barack Obama

Diablo: If he should be cut some slack it's because he's been in office less than a year and high expectations mean that everyone is going to feel disappointed regardless of how much gets done. Gender and race are irrelevant when it comes to the Presidency. They have no bearing on the person's ability to do their job. It is the ideas that should matter, and whether or not the public supports them.

@I am D: Neither of us are lost. We've just got different ways of looking at the world. I agree that police states are bad, but do not think the U.S. is one right now or is on the path to becoming one. This opinion could be rationalized and reinforced with evidence, but you could just as easily do the same for your view. This is because political convictions are forged by life experiences into subtle biases. These encourage pre-drawn conclusions and skepticism towards new ideas. My own experiences have fostered values of interdependence and tolerance, while at the same time undermining my trust of businesses and tradition. Other experiences in college brought me to see most of the government as being like the rest of our society: well-intentioned, but often slightly corrupt and flawed in its thinking. There are very few villains I think - just a lot of good folks who sometimes make bad calls or get their priorities messed up. That includes me. I'm probably wrong about many things, but simply don't realize it.

If it is any reassurance, by the way, I realize in retrospect that my brief overview of paleoconservatism had spin and made broad generalizations. All the same, it's a perpetual back-and-forth. Radicals label the President as a fascist, secret Muslim, witchdoctor, Stalinist, or puppet of an alleged international conspiracy of Jewish bankers that rule the world (wtf meter -> 8.9). These claims are promoted frequently by my town's newspaper. News programs on television do the same sometimes. Other sources tilt the opposite way and treat conservatives just as unfairly. Therefore, when I see a video like the one posted I cannot trust it without first verifying its credibility as a source of neutral, factual information. What I found on the homepage and during the first few minutes of the documentary justified my suspicions. So I rejected and discredited it as bogus rather than focusing on some of the issues that we strongly agree on (like opposition to domestic espionage).

Hopefully this helps explain my thinking somewhat, D. I am fine with your beliefs and think its important that millions of people have them. The same applies for my own views. Every ideal and disagreement between groups has a role to play in shaping the future of our society. It would be unhealthy if the People stopped doubting and questioning each others ideas, or the actions of their government.

@At all: Perhaps an interesting question to see answered would be this: Who do you think should win the next Nobel Peace Prize? There are a lot of amazing people out there whose passions, achievements, and potential go unnoticed by society. If there are any names that come to mind, please post them.

None one right now do I know of whom in my view would deserve it yet.

You should try too not dismiss things so quickly and btw the video is mainly for a starting point Drakon. So, it is an introduction into things for one too research on their own. I watch, listen too, read, etc things very often which in the first moments I find distasteful or are seemingly biased or against my views. When I do, I am observing it all and pulling it in, getting all parts together before I try too build the bigger picture.

Back on whom would deserve it, I bet it would be some group or person whom is doing aid for poorly situated people. I like the idea of someone getting it whom both invents something and implements it and gets this "thing" going so good that it helps massive amounts of people in some form. I like continued advancement in current tech, with the addition of it being able too be continually improved.

BTW Drakon did you know about Ron Paul?

Diablo, he is also the first president too head the UN Security Council.

I have also heard he is only 8.(something)% of African decent. Oh I forgot, that "colored" thing applies too all "non-whites" *cough* Even though many people still call him "Black" which I think is just too re-enforce their ego+mob mentality. Gives them some reason too feel better or worse, saying oh I am so great I voted for a black guy, while the other is so they can feel hate and have that as their strong opposition too him. Race too me is only genetics everything else is our chosen "personality" or main one anyhow.

I am not sure of any names either. It is hard to learn about people like those who win these prizes without digging deep for information oneself. After all, bad news sells better than good news and this is clearly reflected in what gets reported. Theres nobody to blame for it, really, but it makes it hard I imagine for people to raise awareness of those who do the most good in the world behind the scenes.

As for Ron Paul, I do know about him. He was very popular in the county where I live, and his supporters were astoundingly vocal and energetic in campaigning for him. He is a Congressman from Texas 14th district who ran in 1988 for President as the Libertarians candidate, and again during the last election as a Republican. His platform featured an interesting blend of conservative and liberal ideals, which uniquely set him apart from other GOP contenders. I agree with him that combating terrorism with full-scale wars is probably not the best option; habeas corpus must be preserved; torture is unacceptable; the Patriot Act and domestic surveillance are outrageous; and that it is important that our military always be volunteer rather than conscripted. I also am amiable towards some of his positions on election reform and (opposing) the militarys dont ask, dont tell policy. Establishing a balanced budget is also important. Overall though, I have had bad first-hand experiences with his campaign supporters and do not support his ideology as it applies to federal government, economics, religion, and foreign affairs. His views on the 2nd Amendment, healthcare, education, marriage, and the death penalty also concern me. I think that Congressman Paul is a good man with an honest cause - libertarian agendas have pros and cons like any other - but would not vote for him in an election.

The matter of race that was brought up is also somewhat complicated. While racism certainly persists amongst people of many backgrounds, there is cultural precedence leftover from the past for someone of mixed race to be considered a member of the minority race in the U.S. There was a one drop rule in place under Jim Crow law that stated that a person with any African lineage is African-American (even if he or she physically appears Caucasian). This policy reflected a bigoted attitude that interracial relationships were unacceptable. Any impurity of ancestry automatically made a person part of the inferior group. There are rather strong, deeply-entrenched reasons for why race-related issues persist in the U.S. These are culturally embedded and, to some extent, perpetuated by socioeconomic conditions. Some of the prejudices that linger in our society today will take many generations to fade away.

as you may know, im a scientist and thus my point of view of the nobel prizes is 'scientific', mostly apolitical:

you get a nobel prize in chemistry, physics, or economics when you make a discovery or formulate a theory important enough to deserve a prize, not when you declare you are willing to do a discovery or to formulate a theory

the same can be said about medicine nobel prizes. the guy that gets the prize is the one that cures the disease, not the one that declares he will make efforts to cure it

you get a nobel prize in literature when you are a writer that has already written something that deserves a prize, not when you declare you are going to write something really good

(and yes, i usually know the works of the guys that get the nobel prizes in chemistry and physics, and sometimes also the ones hat get the medicine one, and usually they deserve it. simply its difficult to know about them if you are not a scientist as is difficult for me to know about economics winners as im not an economist)

consequently, i expect the nobel peace prize to be granted to somebody that has achieved some results in his search for peace, not to somebody that has simply declared he wants the world peace (that, on the other way, seems to be the final goal of most competitors in the miss universe contest) and is willing to make some efforts to achieve it

from my point of view, this man (regardless of him being the president of the usa or the last worker of the smallest factory of kuala lumpur, or of him being black, white, or purple) has not done achievements enough to get the prize, so he doesnt deserves it yet.

if he manages to get done all the stuff he promised then he maybe will deserve the prize, but not yet...

just my 2 cents

nice post Arvedui..

Drakon, what do you mean about the 2nd Amendment and his position on it? Also what state do you live in?

Anyone here ever watch the Davos conference videos? I think someone from there could be the next one.

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Originally posted by I am D
Drakon, what do you mean about the 2nd Amendment and his position on it? Also what state do you live in?

There are disagreements between what the 2nd Amendment has to say about what the individual's rights are in terms of firearm ownership. I do not believe that regulating or limiting the kinds of weapons that can be privately owned is unconstitutional. To me the phrase "well regulated Militia" refers to what are presently state-level national guard units rather than to private vigilante groups. Congressman Paul is not exactly enthusiastic about gun control legislation. To answer your other question, I live in Montana.

yeah all true arv
but lets face it

a scientist has all the shiny tools or at least a brain
our medicin men have a flu other stuff they can cure (writing that statement made me smile for some reason ^^)
writers have inspiration

what do politicians have? hot air

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Originally posted by SWAT_OP-R8R
what do politicians have? hot air

they have money (our money to be true), and responsibility... but most of them dont know how to use the former with the latter

...but we are going offtopic, isnt it?

OT somewhat Arvedui.

It will be for another time Drakon, but your understanding is illogical, because why would they give that too the military when it can be "civilians"... you see there is a reason for 2nd Amendment, protection against future tyrants as well as local protection against foreign military.

Like I said though, for another thread.. or personal conversation.

I agree SWAT-OP-R8R and Arvedui, hot air is right as well as the magicians illusion powers!

BTW Did anyone notice how Obama said he would leave nothing off the table in dealing with Iran etc, including nuclear weapons, so how I wonder when he changed his mind on that one. He surely has "changed" his mind many times. If these things didn't matter they would actually be funny.. maybe then I could still watch the Daily Show and Corbet Report.

PS: Drakon and/or anyone else as well, would you like too have a discussion on the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution? We can also include other countries and discuss how our countries are etc.. an idea which passed over me.

One can only hope that the Nobel Committee was hoping to set an expectation for Obama to live up to. Even in this case, one could make a case for the idea that European liberals are using the prize as a means of further advancing a socialist agenda in the US (not that Obama needs any help in this direction). Either way, by prematurely attributing such recognition, the Nobel Prize is unfortunately diminished in its significance. I have no doubt that there are many worthy candidates in the world, who could make MUCH better use of the financial reward, and produce further humanitarian benefits...

dont compare magicians with politicians - thats an insult to all wizards out there

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Originally posted by lucy in the sky
Now for something completely different: Stop complaining about politicians. You got a vote. Use it. Or go into politics and do it better.

That tends to be how I look at it - it's a democracy after all and nobody is standing in the way of any of us getting involved. Most politicians work long hours for much lower pay than their talents would garner in the private sector. They try to bring about changes, but it's much easier said than done. When they succeed, most people don't care. When they fail people gripe about them, use them as scapegoats, and adopt broad stereotypes. Yet that doesn't change anything. The fact is that tens of millions of people loaf around apathetically, form uneducated views, and don't even vote in every election. The only difference is that when a typical citizen neglects their responsibilities there isn't a news crew on site to cover it live, recycle sound-bites for a week, and analysts who bicker over the quality of the person's ideas and character. Other than their money, do such people contribute anything to the process? If one takes a moment to think about it, are there no parallels to be drawn between that dynamic and our own community?

BREAKING NEWS:

This just in: Obama wins the Heisman Trophy after watching a college football game!!!

lol

lol @ Mara and OP-R8R..

I better edit my post before I start getting shape-shifting wizards coming here!

I disagree about how things work and I agree on how a lot of people are.. although I go back towards pointing out social engineering. I still think that the majority have their brains directed.

I would like it if I meet up with how Lucy described a good person essentially, however I don't much like my kin. Disgusting, lame, lazy, blah blah.. I suppose we are supposed too love beyond such things though eh? I think we need a new award, one for getting beyond self-limitations and outer-control... becoming real and always true. I think that kind of goal is what we really need.