my political statement to the Ukrainian crisis

well, EU and NATO didnt do anything yet (other than to try to calm down a situation which already was out of control at that point of time)

everything else is a matter of conflicting opinions of the people inside the country

About the 5 bill, that was SINCE 1991 to support the country (or as the video says "subvert Ukraine" over a long period), NOT to the strike/opposition from this month. Just listen to what she actually says in the video, in english. So what OP said about no direct help is still true, as diplomatic visitors are obvious since they are on the same side. It's not a declaration of war having a diplomatic meeting. And lol @ the "hijacked hotmail messages", always a hotmail version of everything. Funny how everybody high (goverment guys, opposition leaders, everybody) uses plain common unsafe communication methods, as if they do it especially to be discovered

How about the 1.5 billion "donation" of Russia to the President, exactly after the major clash from last Wednesday, so directly related to the conflict, not stuff from the last 10 years like that US support. To "help maintain the country" he says, more like, keep fighing, we'll keep up your country instead. THIS is what a direct help to one of the sides looks like. Pretty sure you can find "mainstream news" about what both sides do. If you only look to one direction, you miss the shit from the other direction Also, don't search for news about a side on websites owned by the other side... even seen news about neo-nazis being behind the clash in Ukraine in Russian version news, lol. You know how mainstream TV channels and sites are owned by their own government, right ?

What you say about US support, Russia did way more in the last years, for example, one of the last year news: $15 billion aid to Ukraine not a 'gift', Russia expects a 5% return — RT Business , only 15 bill more, and a total mess of from and to where the money goes with "interests" for both sides, give 15bill, I keep 3 bill, you keep 7bill, and everybody happy. The result was visible, the Prez got 2 more mansions (now has 13 and the Russian palace with a newly made private street for his private hideout), and Ukraine went deeper into crisis.

Also, there was never a pro-russia opposition in Europe, lol, the major issues and strikes were due to the crisis and against corruption, aka government guy found with 20mill in his banks, made his life impossible and career over. Non EU countries, 14 mansions and 3 billion bank accounts, nobody says a word. But that complaining about crisis and corruption is only because people complain too much AND that they are ALLOWED to complain. 3% increase in tax as result of a "major" Crisis ? Sry but on the outside-of-EU side of countries and recently added to EU ones, the crisis wasn't really noticed because people don't know what NOT being in crisis looks like. The crisis is seen in people's salaries going down more than usual, or even skipping a month of elder's pension because "there's simply no money in the country's bank". Nope, cus it's in the fat asses's pockets. I lived on both sides of the EU line, and never wanted to have a TV channel from my old place, because it's too depressing to watch the news there. The part of skipping elder's pension cus of no money in bank is real news from such country I lived in, asked for 3 economical help, got them all, but half of that help somehow didn't arrive in the bank accounts.

Also, do you think that people camping in the plaza is enough reason to send either the police force or army (marking the population there as "terrorists") ? There is no possible reason or excuse to send the police or army force into a sitting population, as they have the human right to express their opinions there while they don't attack anything. The videos about it are much clearer than the text news, the full version videos, not the news one. You could see how they were shuting there at the plaza knowing the president sent an order to send in the police force, personally. He also removed the Chief of Army because he did not want to send the order to send in the army (as the police force failed to clear out the people), so he placed there one of his puppets, and the order was sent. How legal does this sounds ?

How about the russian army being sent over to help the president personally ?
Ukraine leader urges Putin to pull back military - Yahoo News
Ukraine mobilizes after Putin's 'declaration of war' - Yahoo News

What the heck even are these news... first time I saw them, so I'm not sure what's going on with them, I have to investigate more, but still. Your 5 bill video is not related to the opposition at all, diplomatics visiting the opposition is normal communication, nothing more, but Russia directly injected money to the president with the clear purpose to help him keep his position, and now there are words about Russia sending in the army because Ukrainian one denied to fight it's own population ?

ahemm

and you think that janukowitsch and his party were not supported financially by russia?
russia buys their influence in various countries... just like probably everyone does who has the powers to do so

the so called opposition btw. has been the majority of the people... well... i dont think that they did this because of a bit money that a party received over many years or because of some politicians which went to the Ukraine AFTER this mess has already started.

Russian media distort events in Ukraine | Europe | DW.DE | 12.12.2013
Russia's shifting role in Ukraine crisis - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
Russia evokes World War Two in media blitz on Ukraine
| Reuters

My 2 cents: This conflict is about gas (natural ressources).

Gazproms main gas line to Europe is through Ukraine, where it is claimed that Ukraine "took some gas and didn't pay" (which is an old story). Germany is a major customer of this gas.
Gazprom claims 1,549 billion dollar for unpaid gas and Ukraine is considered bankrupt (I think) atm.
The above mentioned "contributions" are considered "peanuts" in this "picture"!

So now the Ukraininan people is suffering because of this! I do hope that it doesn't come to war, but I fear that it will.

Quote: "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
- Master YODA, Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menace

Ukraine is bankrupt because 37billion (or 55billion depending on the source or date) dissapeared from the country's economy while this president was in charge.

Anyway, the Russians feel obligated to act because the president was removed in Ukraine, the police force didn't work and even though he replaced the Chief of Army with one of his puppets (as usual), he couldn't send in the army force and eventually met with the opposition. So technically communism lost in Ukraine, and Russia is afraid it's a precedent that can happen in the rest of the "democratic countries" with communist links which are actually a handfull of countries including the two ones who got into the EU last time.

But I doubt they will consider that "global communism loss of power" enough reason to start a suicidal act of invading Europe.

well, the media in most european countries tends to report of everything... not matter if good or evil
thats the job of the media

and who cares about a nato army infront of the door?
The nato countries barely are able to make a decision to attack somebody... unless its an absolutly moraly correct decision. Worries about a Nato attack are absurd... so is the imagination that europe is trying to ruin other countries.

And btw.
Europe is as much dependent on russian resouces like russia is dependent on european money.
It is not that russia is selling gas to europe just because europe needs such urgent help.
If the flow of gas stops the flow of money does aswell and then both sides are fucked up.

I agree with Denne. Most of the states involved in this crisis should take care of their own problems before they take care of other countries problems.
I also agree that Russia, EU and the USA should have stayed out in this conflict. I really don't know what the USA has to do here again. I can understand that there is Russia as well as the EU involved due to geographical neighbours.

The Ukraine is an own state and its people should decide what to do and what they want. The problem i see is the corruption amongst the new and old government. The risk permits that there wont be an fair and honest election. If the people would have been satisfied with the Janukowitsch government then why they did not fight against the demonstrants? Who cries loudest will probably get heard. The next elections will (hopefully) show what the Ukraine people want. And hopefully the other part then accepts the election as help to built up the state again. But that might only work if the elections can be trusted and there is no deception.

Then it should be the choice of Ukraine again to decide whether they want to align to its western neighbours or eastern and then again each side should accept that.

I don't know what the EU wants with Ukraine - I believe it has something to do with is natural resources. But I also believe Ukraine should not belong to the EU as well as not to Russia. It could be the better option for them to remain independent. And finally i hope for the people in Ukraine that this conflict will soon have a good end and that a civil war (if that is not already happening) is not going to happen.

Quote from denne

uhm, no, our medias will do all possible to avoid any news about it

C'mon, you know perfectly how the bad news always fly and sound high. And yes, they do say this:

Quote from denne

if such "peaceful" demonstrations as in Kiev would raise in our western countries, what do u think, our media will tell us then? that some people go for more democracy and that our governments are the evils,

People in Spain wanted less crisis and less corruption (for them, corruption means the ex treasurer found with 20 million in his bank, and power traffic to give jobs to familiars instead of anyone... not lower title fat asses with 14 palaces and a billion in their account like in border or outside EU countries), they went on the streets for "more democracy" as your sarcasm says, and the news told exactly the same. It was also clearly recorded and shown on TV with longer than 20 second footage (like usual on site news) how there were just few members of a radical group "black hand" that does not want a government at all (no, no nazis/facists/communists) set on fire the junk bins and broke windows at stores and banks, while the manifestants were trying to peace out the other more violent ones. And yes they did say that at the local news on TV. Crisis in Europe was 3% more IVA/TVA, crisis anywhere else = salary cuts (including to 25% or half on some sectors) and no elder's pensions for an entire month (Romania) still including the yearly cuts in the payments. Prices always go up, of course.

But what where the news about that on the international news ? "ohmigawd crisis in Spain reached climax" " Spain is the top 2 country in ruin in EU" "Spain totally needs to be saved with that economic debt offer they got else they will collapse!". Spain didn't get any external help, didn't accept any money to be debted for a generation, and is now increasing the economy at a 1% rate, twice than last year, which was better than before. Nobody looks at Spain anymore now, do they ? No crisis/problems, no food for the newsmakers.

So...

Quote from denne

uhm, no, our medias will do all possible to avoid any news about it

What I see is exageration everywhere, not occultation/dissimulation. So, I have to support OP's opinion with the examples I gave above:

Quote from SWAT_OP-R8R

well, the media in most european countries tends to report of everything... not matter if good or evil

(Separated from the previous wall of text)
I don't know where's the doubts on which "side" is doing wrong. There was no money or military support to the opposition like first mentioned, as that video clearly said, "since 1991" and "economical help" because the country was in actual crisis since leaving Russia, as they were wiped clean. Meanwhile, the other side, direct funding of the president's moves as motivation to fight the people, now he's speaking in russian meetings/media to "fight for Ukraine"...

This is as simple as:
There are russian soldiers in Ukraine, (seized the parlament and placed the Russian flag instead of the Ukraine one, blocked the port, airport and other tactical locations, which are ways to send in troops in mass.) WTF is the "reasonable explanation" of that act ? The only reason that's not called a war is because Ukraine didn't got time nor the power to fight back the soldiers that invaded them.

I hate politics
The people of Ukraine and Russian brothers

Hmm, your location explains that idea, but, that's bs, no country that fought to free itself from Russia in the past are brothers with the oppressors. They fought 20+ years ago, they kinda fought again now, and they might fight again, until effing Russia gets it that they are doing it wrong. Use force to take over somebody else, expect to get punched back to your place. Violence brings for more violence.

opinions change

Only in two situations, when you are enlightened by clear facts and a slap on the face (as a wake up move if needed) or forced by fear.... Apparently there's some new pro-russian support in Ukraine in the areas of... what a coincidence, exactly the area around Crimea that got occupied... who really thinks those charts are for real ? When Ukraine was occupied/part of Russia, that was the worst part of their history timeline... same for Romania who even resisted the barbars a thousand years ago but fell into this major conflict by WWs, and freed itself with a political trick instead of a battle, while also taking an adjacent piece of terrain out of Russia so then they could independizise (Moldova), and the rest of the countries who freed themselves last time. Just wait until they have a chance to defend themselves and/or strike back, like they did last time.

i think they are real
the alignment to russia in that region has historical and geographical reasons

very hard to arguement about that

Why wasn't it (that support) there one week ago, or in the last 3 months ? When they took down the russian-sided president, where his allignment was proven when he spoke in Russia's parlament about Ukraine.

If there's really such support there, and not caused by fear, or "idealism brainwash" that they will have any less problems there (even though their problems did come from there in the first time)... or money interests again, then Ukraine will split. Ukraine as a whole cannot be occupied, annexed and "dissapear" again, they have their own history timeline now, as Ukraine, not as a piece of Russia. Even if this support was real, it's not a majority one, and does not excuse those troops coming in by force.

They did this move before the prez's puppets from the government were removed, the Chief of Army the prez replaced with one of his puppets right in the last day of conflicts (because the last one did not agree to send the order to charge into the population), is already removed, but there are still plenty of those puppets in governamental spots including spokesmen and "public voice" roles that were used before the conflict, that's why the situation there is still not clear enough for a decision about this russian move. Meanwhile the new representant says they are trying to take over the communication systems, which totally looks like a dirty move to silence people's true support and cover them up with what those puppets say.

i can see the situation from both side
and i totally disagree with your conclusion and opinions about it

your pics above show a nice overview of countries in which the political opposition and even population was either locked away or murdered by the government
soo... yeah...
killing in syria goes on.... thank you russia