Realism Improvement

There are 36 replies in this Thread. The last Post () by Rexor.

    Last year OP had the good idea to add inertia to the ships.
    Initially he added so much inertia, that the fighters with fill cargo holds double of triple their inertia.
    Then we decided that a full cargo hold have a weight around 7 tons (50 escape pods ,50x150Kg. = 7.5 tons), and that the VHF have a size around 20 meters and weight around 20 tons.
    Like our current larger atmospheric fighters (F-14, 19 tons, 7 tons fuel / Su-27-33-35, 16-18 tons, 9 tons fuel).
    Because the weight of the full cargo hold isn't higher of the fill fuel weight of the real fighters, and it add significantly inertia but not the double or triple, OP lowered the inertia effect.
    (In truth now it's too low, and to be realistic should be increased a little, but it isn't important 'cause this game it's made mainly for entertainment : must be close with the realism but it's not important, in my opinion, search for the absolute realism, even 'cause it's a little silly in sci-fi range).




    But if we are realistic (more or less) with the weight, we are really far to be the same with the space !! How could enter in a fighter 50 escape pods, whereas they should have the size of a coffin ?
    This has been resolved in a mod (I don't remember which) making the escape pods takes 5 units of space.
    For me should be a good idea. Also if you want keep balanced the game, you may increase the value of the escape pod. But I suggest not 5 times, because it's quite easy earn a lot of money since you understand how well the prison pay them. Maybe 3.

    Edited once, last by Rexor: Top Secret ().

    i hate inertia and realism stuff imo.


    who want more realictic CF => buy some LF or HF and go to Dervon near planet Devra. ;)


    or try play mission lv 42+ in crossair legionar ship ;)

    Ever heard of mass compression ?


    We got FTL gates (Faster Than Light), alien technology, etc, and we don't have a simple mass compressor ? The cargo part of the ship, loads in the energy of the items, so that's how we can load 50 pods in a space for like 10-20 pods. (becauseif you look at your own "body" inside the cockpit, some ships would actually have enough space for like 20 of those, or 30.)



    Both ways would work, as yours, or as it is now...

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Or you can use subspace Cargo Bods, which are larger from inside than from outside.
    And BTW, then some commodities should weight lesser than one ton. For example, gases can be compressed, as Michael said.


    "Across the savage skies and through the fissures in the fields,
    The rumble of the engines and the trundle of the wheels,
    Through hell and horror trudge and yet their spirits never yield.
    Will they sing of these forsaken pawns of war?"
    -Miracle Of Sound, "Pawns of War".

    Quote from /V\ichael

    Ever heard of mass compression ?


    We got FTL gates (Faster Than Light), alien technology, etc, and we don't have a simple mass compressor ? The cargo part of the ship, loads in the energy of the items, so that's how we can load 50 pods in a space for like 10-20 pods. (becauseif you look at your own "body" inside the cockpit, some ships would actually have enough space for like 20 of those, or 30.)



    .... Mass compression ?? ..... Simple ? ........ Don't seems to me a simple thing ...... Also do you want to compress evev human beigns ??????????


    Quote from Ajay

    And BTW, then some commodities should weight lesser than one ton. For example, gases can be compressed, as Michael said.


    Gas surely can be compress, and a lot, but few items are made of gas.
    Yes, could be cargo more light, but this is about inertia. We must suppose an average weight of the cargo.

    Sure why not, the "humans" in the Escape Pods are not alive, they are... frozen, so mostly like a pack of meat.



    AND ! An escape pod is NOT a ton, it's just a human with a shell, it can't even hit 0.2 tons. So since the ships can load 60 tons of other stuff, why wouldn't they load 60 escape pods that are barely 10 tons ? :D

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Quote from /V\ichael

    AND ! An escape pod is NOT a ton, it's just a human with a shell, it can't even hit 0.2 tons. So since the ships can load 60 tons of other stuff, why wouldn't they load 60 escape pods that are barely 10 tons ? :D



    --------------------- Out of topic !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------


    :rtfm:
    We are talking about space, not weight !
    For the weight it's ok !
    I said : << 50 escape pods, each 150Kg. = 7.5 tons >> ------------- "Last year" -------------------

    It's pretty much the same, 1 escape pod can't occupy more space than 1 ton of water, food, luxury food, etc


    It's not like humans are made out of air and take more space than 1 entire ton of other commodities.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Well, looking at how big Trent is compared to the ship, you're right ^^



    But then we'd have to change all the commodities to fit the Escape Pods edit, since comparing pods with 1 ton of other commodities, it already is balanced, but the whole balance take it as if fighters have more space than they actually do.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    Other reason can be balance. I'd never used a ship with 20 cargo units in hold. (The true reason i never use a light fighter).


    "Across the savage skies and through the fissures in the fields,
    The rumble of the engines and the trundle of the wheels,
    Through hell and horror trudge and yet their spirits never yield.
    Will they sing of these forsaken pawns of war?"
    -Miracle Of Sound, "Pawns of War".

    We playing a sci-fi fantasy role playing space game. None of it is real. You can't take something that is not real and make it "more" real. In the Sol system, the Earth is 100k from the Sun. Let's make it "more" real and make it 100,000,000k from the Sun [real size solar system]. That way it would take you 3 months of real time to travel from Earth to say Mars, for example [just as it would in real life]. If we start making things "more" real then where do we stop? Let's take out jump gates [they are not real]. Hyper gates, cruise engines, ion cannons....none of these are real.


    Let's not get hung up on how "real" our make-believe game is.

    Quote from (IOC)Rex Nebular

    We playing a sci-fi fantasy role playing space game.

    As long as we don't have to use "spells" and "magic candles/handles/daggers 'n swords" and other sorcery stuff.


    Quote from (IOC)Rex Nebular

    ...game. None of it is real. You can't take something that is not real and make it "more" real.

    Almost every game ever invented in human history was/is modeled after the reality and was/is intended to teach something for REAL LIFE.
    ...in a funny way, what is a lesson in itself (Don't take life too serius.). Therefor a game CAN be made MORE real or LESS real.


    Quote from (IOC)Rex Nebular

    ... jump gates [they are not real]. Hyper gates, cruise engines, ion cannons....none of these are real.

    Better : not become reality ... YET ! They are, well : thinkable and this is SCI-FI. Might not possible within the "scholars physics" scope yet.
    But the same can and was said about electric light, airplanes, astronautics, cars going 400 km/h and more. History and development of our
    knowledge proved these statements WRONG. And all these things were forsaid ... by "utopist" and "phantasts" we now call sci-fi authors. ;)


    Quote from (IOC)Rex Nebular

    In the Sol system, the Earth is 100k from the Sun. Let's make it "more" real and make it 100,000,000k from the Sun [real size solar system]. That way it would take you 3 months of real time to travel from Earth to say Mars, for example [just as it would in real life]

    There ARE games that use these realistics... and it IS fun to play them. (esp. having I-WAR EdgeOfChaos in mind).
    (IMHO unfortunatly never been developed much further, even though it had it's modding community)


    Quote from (IOC)Rex Nebular

    Let's not get hung up on how "real" our make-believe game is.

    I'm sure this is not Rexors intention.
    How much "sci-fantastic" realism is in a game is a matter of taste and it's the decision of the "cook" how much of this spice he might add
    to the whole dish. Like the inertia : on first "evening" it was too much, so its amount was changed on next "evening".


    ... and Rexor just proposes another "variation" of taste. :D


    Superint_siggy_new.png


    Am I a man ? I am. So - I got married. House, wife, children,everything.
    The FUULL catastrophy !

    "MY MACHINE": Win 7 prof 64bit , i7 3770K , vtx HD7950 X-edition , 8 GB DDR3-2400 , Sandisk 256 ultra , 2TB Seagate, BenQ BL2710PT (2560x1440)

    Allright guys... I think you missed something.


    This game is Sci Fi, a Space Sim, meant to be (In Crossfire mod's case) arround 1000 years into the future, 100 years of war (+ some before), 800 of the Exode, and the rest, nearly 100, with the latest events.



    So by then we can say it's "realistic" there are jump gates, ion cannons, and also that the 1 K and M in game are Not the "Km" and "Meters" of our life, that it's something else, meant for space exploring :D So counting that Earth in-game is like 5 K (rough estimation), 300 K until the rift would be quite a realistic comparation for a game.
    Same as the volume compression, nanotechnology makes jumpgates and powerful but small ships possible, why not that cargo can also be made small as the ship parts :D Who knows.

    Chars: [CFPD]Michael~something (x25), [CFPD]~SQMS~{[(store)]} (x3), [CFPD]xfer, Event~Manager~Michael, StarfIier~EM~Michael, Event_Team_2, [GR]Michael[SP] and a blueprint of [CFPD]Sephirothis

    I know that things like the dimension of the planets and their distance ar far to seems real ................... but on this you can "turn a blind eye" (... I hope the translation is right ! ...).



    Particle, ion, plasma, laser cannons also will be probably part of the future.
    We already got the rail electromagnetic cannon (it's a prototype in development, burt there is, and it's powerful ... ( the USA Navy want to keep this project alive ).
    Now we can already do laser, even powerful, ..... we got a plasma ray cutting machine, extremely powerful, a ray at 20'000° celsius that cut quickly everything !
    ( The version with 10'000° is used to cut the hull of the M1A1/A2 USA tank (!) to install upgrades ).


    We also have the engines used to do little movements in space at the Space Shuttle, that are, if I remember well, electric-magnetic-plasma based.
    They don't use fuel and have a light-blue exhaust. Updated 3 years ago, can have a power of 300 HP. But scientists are sure to rapidly increase this power.
    ( Probably, 50 years from now, they'll have a power of 30'000 HP, not sufficient for takeoff from Earth, but to move in space ).


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    If a game is far to seems real, guys that are not little boys can find it ridiculous, and have not will to play it.


    Perhaps I can "turn a blind eye" on the dimensions, distances etc. ...., ............. but some other things ............................




    -------------------------------------- From Michael (I don't know .... the "Quote" don't work now) :
    << But then we'd have to change all the commodities to fit the Escape Pods edit, since comparing pods with 1 ton of other commodities, it already is balanced, but the whole balance take it as if fighters have more space than they actually do. >>


    What are you talking about ??????? I don't understand this message !
    Who said to compare 1 pods with 1 ton ???????????
    Colud be that every unit of space is about a big box, .... 5 boxes have the space of a coffin ....

    Edited 4 times, last by Rexor: Add comment ().

    ACTUALLY IT DOESN'T! 1000 years, imagine humanity could've developped a FAR BETTER ENGINE that makes you fly Very fast and the Distances are very short because you re so FAST! If you played games like Sins of a Solar Empire(Strategy Space Game) or Ogame(Browser game) you'll see what they accomplished with exploring new Technologies and so on! I thin it makes sense :D if you see it's marked as K and M I don't think that K means km and m means meter! Those letters must be something meant for a far greater distance, I'm sure.

    ...woah. Um, I don't mean to be blunt or sound like a lecturer, or a smart a*ed, pain in the a*.


    BUT, please be careful about claiming some of the things claimed in this thread. I know a little about some of the things discussed here and there are some very inaccurate claims being made especially with the use of numbers... (oh and the units: the system is undefined, so imagine whatever you want re. their true meaning. The scale is inconsistent so it makes no difference and is a pointless argument)


    This is a game, not a simulator. Reckon that should be the end of the argument as the current methodologies are for developing a balanced fun playing environment, with elements of realism based on current knowledge. I agree it is valid to question the volume of the pods, but it currently works in game. Increasing the hold space used would just mean that people would head to prisons more regularly, and get annoyed with flying times probably starting a new thread complaining about it.


    A Suggestion has been made, noted and is now clearly discussed, fine keep discussing it, I don’t agree it should be changed, that's my Opinion. But please, hold back on the claims about real technologies. I play Crossfire to pretend, garner inspiration and have FUN, not remind me of work.

    Bucket - Works for whoever hires him so he can afford to go exploring and collect things to put in the bucket
    Bucketrain - Its raining goodies from the Bucket (especially if you ask nicely)... Or just moving a bucketload of goodies...
    BucketHunter - Bucket doesn't like aliens. Hunter hunts them.
    CharlieBucket - Owns a chocolate factory!! But went evil with power...or sugar...we're not quite sure...

    Well actually, sometimes Logic is fun too =D like Mass Effect, bioware tried to make it as realistic as possible, and it's hell of a Fun! So maybe bringing this inside Freelancer wouldn't be THAT bad you know? But yeah you re true about that, not realy need to discuss it.